Do good little soldiers go to heaven?

Lets just say for a moment that I believe in heaven/hell. I don’t want to discuss the validity of their existence, but would hope that some who do believe in “God’s Kingdom,” will be able to provide an opinion based upon their interpretation of what a soldiers motive, duties and accomplishments will grant them.

Imagine on one side that you have joined ISIS to keep you and your family alive due to lack of choice. You have no affiliation or semblance of belief to the faction, but must do what is necessary in order to survive. Now, imagine that you are part of an opposing force given the task to eradicate any and all ISIS members that appear in your field of vision.

The question is, do any soldiers on both sides go to heaven based upon what brings them to the opposing front? Are both soldiers doing “god’s work,” or are all sides in a war destined for hell? From a religious standpoint, which I know exists on ATS, what is a soldiers role in doing what I would consider the unthinkable? Upholding the ideals of someone who can care less about your contribution to freedom and democracy, but has you killing in the name of?

I'm genuinely a nice guy and I'm not looking for trouble. If you sincerely do believe in a heaven/hell, what is your interpretation of what a soldier that kills without conviction, someone who kills the "enemy," is expected to find in the afterlife?

There's a lot of recorded killing in religious history. I think that's where the ideas of Heaven and Hell were firmed up as well. Must be okay to kill in battle then.

As for me personally, I don't see a problem with it. My take on it is like chopping off a part of you that's malignant. You don't want to cut too much. You don't want to take healthy flesh. But, the bad's gotta go.

We're all gonna see each other on the other side. I'm pretty sure of that.

a reply to: eisegesis

Wow...good one..this should fetch a billion relplies..I remember hearing a priest say everyone is going to be barred from heaven because other than little children nobody follows the bible closely

With that said hell is gonna be packed...Don't worry friends, it will only feel like an eternity..

a reply to: Snarl

There's a lot of recorded killing in religious history.

Is religious history their history or all of ours?

The idea of a "holy war" seems to have taken the notion of killing for a purpose and then adding religious connotations to that purpose. In the end, do those that benefit care about how "holy" the war was in the first place? Seems like a ruse on both sides and the only ones going to heaven are those who stay out of the culling.

a reply to: eisegesis

It's an honest and sincere question which I have always questioned. If you follow the 10 commandments, one of them is crystal clear - "I shall not kill." So you have to wonder if killing for a perceived threat to yourself or your country is ok in God's eyes. If it was, I think the commandment would have been stated differently.

You then have to wonder if "I shall not kill" also pertains to animals too.

We call ourselves civilized, but a civilized race would not be waging war or killing fellow human beings. I had an uncle who was in World War II who no longer believed in God because of what he saw during the war. He used to say, "if there was a God, he would never allowed his creations to do such horrible atrocities to each other. My dad fought in Guadalcanal and he would never udder a word about the war or what he saw and experienced.

The suicide rates of military personal is a telling sign of the mental anguish and anxiety these young men and women experience after being ordered to wage war by their government leaders. Many of these leaders have never experienced first hand the emotional toll war plays on the minds of these soldiers.

Everyone that repent goes to heaven no?

The commandment in question is Thou shalt not kill or thou shalt not murder.

If you look at Strong's Concordance, the translation leans heavily toward connotations of murder, not simply to kill.

So I guess whether or not you feel what you are doing as a soldier is murder would play a key. Is the soldier engaging in murder? Is all instance of killing murder? Some feel it is; others feel there is a difference. Certainly the law sees clear difference between killing in self-defense, accidentally killing someone, killing someone in the heat of the moment (crime of passion), and premeditated deliberate slaying of another.

Which is a soldier engaging in or does a soldier only engage in one? Does merely signing up for military service automatically make you a murderer because it argues you have intent to kill the day you take the oath? Or are there other reasons one might serve in the military given the scope of its mission from defense to disaster relief to aggressive action?

And given that these are all human philosophical arguments ... does God see a distinction which is really what this is about?

And after we've gone through all that ...

In the end, one who sincerely repents is saved whatever we might think and whatever our earthly justice might be.

a reply to: WeRpeons

An excellent response. War is one of the few acts of barbarianism that throws religion out with the bath water. The only saving grace in a soldiers mind is if they honestly believe that they were doing the right thing based upon the information they had been given. Does it come down to how a soldier interprets their orders or whether or not they simply feel they were doing the right thing?

If we can't decide for ourselves, where is the decision to be made? A soldier's belief is hardly their own when taking someone's life as nobody should willingly be up for the task. If it were, the idea of whether their intentions would grant them access to heaven comes down to whether god itself believes their intention to be genuine.

Also, could someone who is of genuine faith be falsely led out of "God's Kingdom," by killing another regardless of the opposing force’s ideals? Would they get a pass if in fact those that they kill are contributing to what they believe is evil?

In conventional war, the enemy is decided for you and you are to follow the script. It appears the ticket is lost directly after the decision is made to follow the "orders" of those we don't fully understand or agree with, let alone have faith in.

EDIT: My own post made my head spin, lol. Good luck with that.

a reply to: eisegesis

A question I have struggled with for more than 35 years. Here is my take on it.

If a person has faith in an afterlife, and they serve in the military and don't do any atrocities, they are eligible for their conception of "heaven". If they kill for country, in self-defense or in the course of military actions, they are eligible.

The core of what I believe is that a person's heart is the measure of their hell. People that carry the wounds of their deeds might just make it. I believe that our energy survives after our physical death. I think that energy or spirit can become trapped or tethered here on Earth if the person cannot let go. Many things can contribute to that tethering and one of them might be guilt over their own actions.

I believe we are all recycled. Those that don't quite get the lessons get recycled to try again. That is hell.

Those that have suffered from the pain of their actions might just "get" what is necessary and move on. I don't know. As I said, these are questions I have struggled with. If I'm right, I hope I "get" it.

a reply to: eisegesis

Things are always gray, sometimes your bad deeds benefit good people, people that could do better good that you ever could.

Ww2 soldiers killed tons, raped and misbehave, some of them in the process rescued victims of the holocaust...
Who are we to judge whats truly just or not? I'm not Peter, a single act define you or is a whole life of deeds?

It's depressing, we are going to hell anyways, other religion condem you, no matter which one you believe in.

Only the winning side goes to heaven...the loosers go some place else....im not sure where that is, but im told theres a lot of weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth....

a reply to: eisegesis

I believe that a creator who allows evil to exist would forgive it as it is inevitable in the system in which earth is run. If God lets evil exist he must be willing to forgive it. He knows all soldiers go through indoctrination and that is just a nice word for mind control.

American soldiers are soldiers by free will where lots of Middle East soldiers are made to fight in many ways, sometimes the fight comes to you and sometimes they drag you to the fight.

I really don't think that any soldier who fights willingly is evil I just think they are misguided and if everyone in the world refused to fight we wouldn't have war.

Everyone needs to put away the guns. An early death is good for no one.

God forgives though.

a reply to: eisegesis

I believe that a creator who allows evil to exist would forgive it as it is inevitable in the system in which earth is run. If God lets evil exist he must be willing to forgive it. He knows all soldiers go through indoctrination and that is just a nice word for mind control.

American soldiers are soldiers by free will where lots of Middle East soldiers are made to fight in many ways, sometimes the fight comes to you and sometimes they drag you to the fight.

I really don't think that any soldier who fights willingly is evil I just think they are misguided and if everyone in the world refused to fight we wouldn't have war.

Everyone needs to put away the guns. An early death is good for no one.

God forgives though.

a reply to: eisegesis

God has recorded your whole life, literally your whole life.
Every single thought you have had in your life is recorded.
Every decision you made, God knew what your true intention was.
We humans can fool ourselves but you can't fool God.

He knows everything about both soldiers, their interview with God does not end with the question: "For who did you fought?"
It is not that black and white, every aspect of their life will be asked about and every good and evil you've done will be shown to you the day you meet God. If your good deeds outweigh your bad deeds, you are safe and you will get what God has promised you. If it's the otherway around you either go to hell or God forgives you, he is the all wise.

"And the Book (of Deeds) will be placed (before you); and thou wilt see the sinful in great terror because of what is (recorded) therein; they will say, "Ah! woe to us! what a Book is this! It leaves out nothing small or great, but takes account thereof!" They will find all that they did, placed before them: And not one will thy Lord treat with injustice." 18:49 Quran

In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. There is no other destination, as Hell did not get created in the beginning, or later. It's just that simple.

originally posted by: eisegesis
Lets just say for a moment that I believe in heaven/hell. I don’t want to discuss the validity of their existence, but would hope that some who do believe in “God’s Kingdom,” will be able to provide an opinion based upon their interpretation of what a soldiers motive, duties and accomplishments will grant them.

Unconditional Love = God = Heaven!
Here! Now!
"Heaven is at hand!" - Jesus
Anything other than unconditional Love = sin = insanity = Hell!
Here! Now!
There IS only Here! Now!

Now, if you are a 'Xtian', you already know what unconditional Love/Jesus would do!
Pick up a weapon and kill someone?
Hardly.
Buddha?
Yeah right!
The same is Truth throughout all 'paths'!
They ALL converge at the same place!
Enlightenment = unconditional Love!
Completely transcendental!
(even of the 'path' that you were on upon becoming Universal!)

There is no carrot/stick lies reward judgment day after you die.
'You' dis-incorporate back into Mother Recycle, to be reincorporated in myriads of ways and forms!! *__-

You can be damn sure that no one with a weapon attempting to harm another is in 'Heaven'!

Parenthetically, no one ever attempts to deliberately harm another, unless one is infected with some strain of a 'belief infection'!
Such as the soldiers 'belief' in his government, or his concept of 'Freedom' (tm)...
A 'belief' is an infection of the imagination, the ego, and it is highly symptomatic!
Killing others is one symptom.

The imagination/thought is also the little red devil on your shoulder whispering into your ear!
Even the bible gets that one right in warning to NEVER 'believe' anything that you 'think' or 'feel' ('feelings' are 'thoughts')!
Being vanity/Pride, it carries 'the' 'sin' warning because it blinds you to unconditional Love (and thus the descent...)!

Anyway, that's my experience...

originally posted by: ketsuko
The commandment in question is Thou shalt not kill or thou shalt not murder.

If you look at Strong's Concordance, the translation leans heavily toward connotations of murder, not simply to kill.

*snipp***
.

And since every soldier goes to war with the express purpose of killing, then it is murder.

So they go to hell.

But if they repent even in their dying moment, they go to heaven.

So - that particular commandment is not really valid.

a reply to: eisegesis

Lets just say for a moment that I believe in heaven/hell.

Okay. If Heaven and Hell are real, I think it will down to the admins to decide who goes where.

For example, I see the war against the Nazis as a righteous one. This should mean that Allied servicemen will go to Heaven for killing bad people and, by extension, protecting others from the Nazis. However, people are people and not every Allied soldier would have been honourable in the war - no free passes there. We'd expect that some on the Nazi side were also honourable in how they conducted themselves and might get a place in Heaven despite fighting on the side of evil.

We could say intent is the key and therefore a clear conscience in war will give us passage to Heaven. Would this include a suicide-bomb in a shopping centre? Would it include an uneducated ISIS beheader who deeply believes in his mission? Or would it include Harry Truman and his decision to drop the Fat Boy on Japan? He might have sincerely believed he was 'saving lives.'

For Heaven and Hell to exist would necessitate a level of bureaucracy and right there is where the decisions would be weighed up and taken. Angels with clipboards and tick sheets or perhaps a jury will appraise our life's deeds. Somebody has to either give a thumbs up or pinch their noses and point downwards on a case by case basis.

It's a poignant thing that many men and women have fought in wars and spent their lives wondering if they'd blown their chances of going to the good place.

I believe in god but am not a christian. I dont beleive in heaven or hell the way it is presented in the bible. I do believe their is a spiritual heaven beyond our own imagination and comprehension to even grasp a shred of of. I do beleive in a hell, or a place of purgatory that people go to serve as punishment for a set amount of time but not for eternity.

The number one thing that i struggled for years with when i was a christian is the fact that we have only 1 SINGLE CHANCE to get it right, and after have eternity in heaven or an eternity of suffering and torture in hell!!

If god is this all lovong and forgiving father, this being of pureness, love, light, mercy, grace etc then why would he give humans only one chance to get it right when he knows full well were all going to sin and mess up, its in a human beings nature to do so. So with that in mind i beleive in reincarnation as it sounds more like the perfect plan for development in a spiritual sense.

We live over and over and in each life live and suffer the karma that is due us from past lives. Through suffering we learn empathy, and through empathy we learn how to love one another. Love can cover a thousand sins.

Anyway im trailing off topic, so do people on both sides go to heaven. Well i beleive it depends not only on that war they had taken part in, but an evaluation of their deeds throughout their life that determines the bigger picture of what kind of punishment or reward one gets so in theory i suppose yeah they could.

a reply to: HolgerTheDane2

But many soldiers sign up to serve during peace time.

And what about people who are faced with the possibility of having their entire nation overrun by a hostile force? Those who sign up to serve then sign to serve in defense.

Again, these are human philosophical arguments. Do you claim to know what God's mind on it is, especially as He Himself called soldiers to defend His people and make war on occasion?

This is however why there are exceptions for conscientious objectors. I guess however since we are doing away with freedom of religion elsewhere, this one might be one that gets scrapped to.