Why don't we just opt out of our government and stop paying taxes?

originally posted by: erwalker
a reply to: jinni73
Income tax is NOT voluntary if, by voluntary, you mean you can choose whether or not you are going to pay it. It is only voluntary in that the government allows you to voluntarily report and pay it on what you have earned.

It is voluntary by your own ignorance. You will be tricked into paying it if just one of your employers W2's you and has your Soc Sec card number. If for your lifetime were self employed never had an employee or were paid in cash or trade; you might get away with not paying Federal Income Tax, State Tax or Fica. Unfortunately if you own property and have to pay property taxes to the state YOU CANNOT HIDE your back Taxable footprints.

originally posted by: jinni73
a reply to: ScepticScot

off hand one name comes up and that is Kerry Packer he went In front of the Australian tax office in a very public debate and said to them "you are mad If you think I am going to give you any money in how you spend it" or words to that effect

Kerry Packer used tax loopholes to minimise his taxation legally (morally may be another question). Nothing about his case shows that taxation is voluntary. If it was he wouldn't have had to use those loopholes ( and his expensive accountants) he could have just not paid it.

So any examples showing that taxation is voluntary?

originally posted by: jinni73
a reply to: ScepticScot

off hand one name comes up and that is Kerry Packer he went In front of the Australian tax office in a very public debate and said to them "you are mad If you think I am going to give you any money in how you spend it" or words to that effect

How about showing the exact quote? Oh, if you did that it totally destroys your claim!

"I don't know anybody that doesn't minimise their tax," Mr Packer growled as he stirred his delicate parliamentary china cup of tea with a teaspoon. "I'm not evading tax in any way shape or form. Of course I'm minimising my tax. If anybody in this country doesn't minimise their tax they want their head read. As a government I can tell you you're not spending it that well that we should be paying extra."

www.smh.com.au... 150408-1mgfaq.html

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: ScepticScot
The Constitution and Bill of Rights says nothing about taxing the citizen. Taxation came about in or around 1912, 135 years after the drafting of such original document? Any amendment regarding taxation is still contested; the supreme court will not hear this.

1. The world is not just the US.
2. The 16th is part of the constitution.
3. Taxes were around long before 1912.
4. Something doesn't need to be in the constitution to be legal.

a reply to: jinni73 Apparently you did not read a single thing from the two links I provided.

The first shows the fallacy of various arguments, such as "voluntary" means you can choose not to pay income tax. It does so by providing actual US court rulings rejecting those arguments. Other countries have had similar court cases with similar results. So you can pretend that you don't have to pay income tax all you want but you will eventually be punished, whether by fines and penalties or incarceration or both, even if it may take a few years to get around to dealing with you.

The second provides dossiers on various US tax protesters and includes details on their punishment for not paying he income tax they owe, despite their arguments and various schemes they have used in a vain avoid paying. People such as Pete Hendrickson and his wife, who have actually spent time in jail all the while claiming his book, "Cracking the Code", contains successful strategies for avoiding paying any tax.

You don't want to pay income tax? Ensure you don't earn enough to exceed your allowable deductions. In Canada, for 2015, that is less than $11,327. You might be able to afford to live on that but I have no interest in living in my mother's basement.

Nothing in the Magna Carta precludes the paying of income tax. In fact, while it detailed basic principles in English law, it is not the law in the US, Canada, Australia, etc. There are only 3 clauses from the 1297 Magna Carta that are still in effect in the UK.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
a reply to: ScepticScot
The Constitution and Bill of Rights says nothing about taxing the citizen. Taxation came about in or around 1912, 135 years after the drafting of such original document? Any amendment regarding taxation is still contested; the supreme court will not hear this.

1. The world is not just the US.
2. The 16th is part of the constitution.
3. Taxes were around long before 1912.
4. Something doesn't need to be in the constitution to be legal.

Taxes on imports from foreign nations perhaps; passed on to the consumer. I was speaking of individual taxes on ones wage.

a reply to: ScepticScot

OK Kerry was summoned into the tax office he said to them the way you spend the money means I am not paying you so on a law basis we need to go to the bill of rights act 1688 www.legislation.gov.uk...


the government do not spend the tax money correctly they are not transparent and the money they give to corporations behind this non transparency invalidates the collecting of it.

further down the bill we come to this edict

Levying Money. That levying Money for or to the Use of the Crowne by pretence of Prerogative without Grant of Parlyament for longer time or in other manner then the same is or shall be granted is Illegall.

archive.treasury.gov.au...


a detailed investigation

First of all, the Federal Government cannot legally collect personal income taxes in Australia as, according to the BNA Act, direct taxation is the sole privilege of the provinces. The only way the Australian Government was able to enact an income tax was to bring it in under the War Measures Act in 1917 as the Income War Tax Act, which is still in effect.

if the price to pay to maintain a peaceful life of plenty with police, fire and ambulance service, schools, roads, bridges, plow-trucks and hospitals is taxes I an happy to do it

I would like it spent more efficiently with less waste and corruption, but the alternative is going back to the stone age and no thanks bruh

originally posted by: syrinx high priest
if the price to pay to maintain a peaceful life of plenty with police, fire and ambulance service, schools, roads, bridges, plow-trucks and hospitals is taxes I an happy to do itI would like it spent more efficiently with less waste and corruption, but the alternative is going back to the stone age and no thanks bruh.

Yes, I would like to have a simple garage sale and not have to pay 50.00 dollars for a permit to do so. I would like to cut my neighbors hair (an invalid) and not have to have a license to do so otherwise become "donations only" hair cutting service. I would like to help others mowing their lawns (as they are unable to do so) without having to be a 'licensed landscape contractor' (liability insurance must needs be provided).

a reply to: erwalker

A court has no jurisdiction over you all your arguments are invalid as you are basing it on a system that is illegal (read Jus Cogens) if you want to give a court authority over you then that's up to you this is down to ignorance of the population and nothing else.

To be crystal clear on this when you enter court the first words a judge will ask you is what is your name The Judge is asking you to give authority to him over you, as Gods law or Jus Cogens or Unalienable Rights or Natural Birth Rights or Pertempory Norm or Canon Law or whatever other label you want to give it means if you do not consent to be judged by someone who is not allowed to judge you then you are not allowed to be judged, when the judge asks you what your name is you reply with the written question IF I GIVE YOU MY NAME AM I GIVING YOU AUTHORITY OVER ME FOR YOU TO SENTENCE ME you reply to this question as a written statement, never talk in court!

remember the judge sits on the bench which means bank

The second etymology is also Germanic but actually came in to English via Late Latin *bancus, via Norman French baunk. In this case, "bank" means "bench", but because the bench is where the money handlers sat in the market, "bank" also came to mean the house of financial transactions in French, Spanish (banco) and Italian.

If you represent yourself the judge has to guide you he will ask you your name 3 times each time you reply in writing repeating the question above back to him, after the third time he will get up and walk out of court as you have not given permission over you NEVER TALK IN COURT.

The Revenue Act of 1862, section 92 allowed income tax to be used in America to pay for the civil war in 1861-1866 the act was only allowed to be enforced for that time therefore if there are no laws in effect allowing your government to tax you it is voluntary

forward to 11 minutes with a statement repeated that tax is voluntary
[yvid][www.youtube.com...][/yvid]

In Australia

Federal income tax was first introduced in 1915, in order to help fund Australia’s war effort in the First World War.[6] Between 1915 and 1942, income taxes were levied at both the state and federal level.

I've come across this document which shows various insights into the actions of the government of Australia concerning the war so am going to put it up as it may contain some information that would be valid
www.google.com.au...~%2Fmedi a%2F05%2520About%2520Parliament%2F54%2520Parliamentary%2520Depts%2F544%2520Parliamentary%2520Library%2FSeminars%2F2013-14%2FWar1914-presentation.pdf&u sg=AFQjCNE-WO-fMX5_qIY5YSJGYA7o8Kv7Ow

loveforlife.com.au...

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: syrinx high priest
if the price to pay to maintain a peaceful life of plenty with police, fire and ambulance service, schools, roads, bridges, plow-trucks and hospitals is taxes I an happy to do itI would like it spent more efficiently with less waste and corruption, but the alternative is going back to the stone age and no thanks bruh.

Yes, I would like to have a simple garage sale and not have to pay 50.00 dollars for a permit to do so. I would like to cut my neighbors hair (an invalid) and not have to have a license to do so otherwise become "donations only" hair cutting service. I would like to help others mowing their lawns (as they are unable to do so) without having to be a 'licensed landscape contractor' (liability insurance must needs be provided).

If two individuals have an agreement between them then that is enough the government is not allowed to get involved.
You are not talking about a government you are talking about a dictatorship.

originally posted by: jinni73

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: syrinx high priest
if the price to pay to maintain a peaceful life of plenty with police, fire and ambulance service, schools, roads, bridges, plow-trucks and hospitals is taxes I an happy to do itI would like it spent more efficiently with less waste and corruption, but the alternative is going back to the stone age and no thanks bruh.

Yes, I would like to have a simple garage sale and not have to pay 50.00 dollars for a permit to do so. I would like to cut my neighbors hair (an invalid) and not have to have a license to do so otherwise become "donations only" hair cutting service. I would like to help others mowing their lawns (as they are unable to do so) without having to be a 'licensed landscape contractor' (liability insurance must needs be provided).

If two individuals have an agreement between them then that is enough the government is not allowed to get involved.
You are not talking about a government you are talking about a dictatorship.

Barter and trade. The government hates this idea. Jams for smoked venison (simple version).

a reply to: hellobruce

I really don't know what your problem is, seems to me you are on the side of the tax office


web.archive.org...://www.clrg.info/wp-content/uploads/n2548charterweb.pdf

scroll down to page 21 section 6

this clearly states tax is voluntary, even though the Australian tax office wording has tried to hide the fact that tax is a voluntary contribution also it seems the Tax office is actually an illegal entity this is referenced in the second link.

this is the link that I added in to an above post but I feel that it is apt to reapply it here just so as you don't get confused as you are obviously unable to go against your programming
loveforlife.com.au...
and this link from the post
www.scribd.com...

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: jinni73
a reply to: ScepticScot

off hand one name comes up and that is Kerry Packer he went In front of the Australian tax office in a very public debate and said to them "you are mad If you think I am going to give you any money in how you spend it" or words to that effect

How about showing the exact quote? Oh, if you did that it totally destroys your claim!

"I don't know anybody that doesn't minimise their tax," Mr Packer growled as he stirred his delicate parliamentary china cup of tea with a teaspoon. "I'm not evading tax in any way shape or form. Of course I'm minimising my tax. If anybody in this country doesn't minimise their tax they want their head read. As a government I can tell you you're not spending it that well that we should be paying extra."

www.smh.com.au... 150408-1mgfaq.html

again I don't understand your claim your saying that tax is not voluntary?
and my referencing Kerry Packers comments prove that I am making things up

how on earth do you get to that assumption at least try and get a good argument going although that's a bit impossible when you are basing your ramblings on lies or are you just about wasting peoples time
I have provided proof that tax is voluntary, it would be nice if other posters on here would spend a little more of there time trying to research what I say rather than me needing to trawl through the net trying to find things I read about years ago
so hellobrucee what are you going to say now

and this is the fuller version of what he said your link does not show it.

again the questioner in the video clip is trying to mislead people he states the spirit of paying tax, yes spirit of just giving your money away to rich people who resemble pond scum,

Kerry had some serious moralistic issues with what I know about him but he was bang on the money with his quotes in this interview raising the points that all the government do is bring out stupid laws and tax collecting.
transparent government has to be bought in and if it takes threads like this to achieve that then all the better especially as it is so easy to see the propaganda tactics employed by posters such as yourself to try and discredit the truth.

not sure if this will take you to the video

hey....amigos.....we have to pay....since the 1850's in America....it's even documented in congressmen speeches....we went bankrupt and the constitution got kinda bypassed....roman law has us and a stupid mix of equity and common.

best thing to do is duck and cover.....duck under the money man......work for yourself bartering too......and cover the cash flow......while being led by the Spirit.....have a freakin blast finding joy and avoiding any gov. thang......

pay the land and school tax but make the land pay with different streams....like garden and guerilla garden and tree farm and guerilla 4 wheeler trails where no one sees them.....it's fun out there if you subdue the land.....raise small goats....the ones that don't stink

a reply to: jinni73

Kerrys moral argument was that he believed he was correct in minimising his tax because of how the government spent the money. That was nothing to do with his legal case regarding the legitimacy of tax loop holes he used. If tax was voluntary he could just have not paid.

As for the freeman woo regarding courts jurisdiction over you can you provide a single case where this has worked? Just one

originally posted by: jinni73
this clearly states tax is voluntary,

No it does not, try actually reading it...

We prefer to work with you cooperatively, providing you with help to meet your tax obligations voluntarily. However, if you are uncooperative or obstructive, we may need to take firmer action.

All they are saying is they prefer you do the right thing and just pay your taxes.... however if you do not they will force you to!

also it seems the Tax office is actually an illegal entity this is referenced in the second link.

No it is not....

this is the link that I added in to an above post but I feel that it is apt to reapply it here just so as you don't get confused as you are obviously unable to go against your programming

So show us the actual court case that he won at www.austlii.edu.au...

a reply to: jinni73 You really do possess no actual knowledge of the law and what constitutes jurisdiction or how it is applied. LOL.

You do like to spout a lot of nonsense though.

originally posted by: erwalker
a reply to: jinni73 You really do possess no actual knowledge of the law and what constitutes jurisdiction or how it is applied. LOL.

You do like to spout a lot of nonsense though.

Typical rubbish coming from a brainwashed slave

So what Is the law gods law or mans law?

if you want to be a slave to another human who poisons your food water and air in order to retard your brain then you can think your immature comments but ALWAYS remember your the slave who was not smart enough to educate himself even when it was spelled out to you