One Gospel, one Kingdom.

a reply to: AngraMainyu
Again it is not an opinion I just showed you it is in the bible gave you the words to search in your bible program.

Jonbet, Gnosisisfaith you are the one who is greatly opinionated

a reply to: Jonbet


You said "...in no way is Jesus statement about the lost sheep of Israel designed to instill belief that Jesus was only here to save Israel".

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel". He knew what he was talking about. All those other sheep of John 10:16 you quoted, are all those who will become naturalised Israelites; so Yeshua [the proper name for the Son of God] did come to save only Israel! Don't confuse Judah [the natural Jews] with Israel [the Israelites] who will be united into one; as Caiaphas prophesied in John 11:51 & 52.

You also quoted Romans 10:13 " Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." which is a quote from Joel 2:32 in the Old Testament, where the name of the LORD is YHWH - not Jesus! This is a common mistake, but it will cause many to lose out on this promise!

originally posted by: AngraMainyu
a reply to: RandallB

Jesus didn't say that about the lost sheep and change his mind because he got rejected, he knew before he got here he would be rejected and killed by some Jews.

Completely agree that Jesus wasn't surprised by Israel's rejection of Him and "Changed His mind".

Please do not confuse the terms "Offering Israel the Kingdom" and "Salvation". Two completely different items.

Salvation only comes from His death on the Cross and Resurrection and our acceptance of it. Jesus knew (from before the foundations of the world were laid) that He was going to die on the Cross. It was the ONLY way that mankind and God could be reconciled. The Sin Debt had to be paid.

Jesus was first offering Israel the Kingdom that was promised to them in many, many scripture verses.

This is what He was doing first. And it will be offered again. That time they will accept.

a reply to: RandallB

originally posted by: Maigret
a reply to: Jonbet
***
You also quoted Romans 10:13 " Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." which is a quote from Joel 2:32 in the Old Testament, where the name of the LORD is YHWH - not Jesus! This is a common mistake, but it will cause many to lose out on this promise!

Confused as to what you mean here. Jesus, Himself, stated the "Work of the Father" that must be done to achieve eternal life is "Believe in the One He has sent (i.e. the Son)". And again scripture states, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him (i.e. the Son) shall not perish, but have eternal life."

So not sure where your thots of "not Jesus" and "lose out on this promise" are leading...

a reply to: RandallB

Romans 10:13 says: Rom 10:13 'for, whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved'.

The Old Testament has the Name of the Father, which is the Name the verse in Romans 10:13 is referring to, because this verse is a quote from Joel 2:32 which is in the Old Testament - in other words, YHWH [Yehovah]. So if you're calling on the name of Jesus, instead of Yehovah, in the hope of gaining the promise referred to in Romans 10:13, you're missing out.

You also quoted John 3:16... continue to verse 18, where it says: John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The name of the Son that is commonly used is Jesus, but this is not the name of the Son of God. Surprisingly, Jesus is not the name that God gave His Son. Check it out! A good source is here:- www.nehemiaswall.com... You only need to listen to the first 15 mins.

So much depends on the name of the Son of God that it is not to be dismissed as unimportant.

a reply to: Maigret

Both Mary and Joseph were instructed to name him Jesus, I believe that Jesus is correct but not the only name he carried as well as his title. Josheph was instructed

Matt 1:20-25 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Luke 1:30-33 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.Lu 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luke 2:21 ¶ And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

So it is clear from the Preserved word of God that his name from birth given by his parents was JESUS. Jesus Emmanuel Bar Joseph, son of God, Ruler of Jacobs house forever.

Just stick to the preserved scriptures and don't trust in men and their illogical conclusions that are not based on the preserved word of God.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Excellent ChesterJohn!


a reply to: Maigret

Also Jesus very clearly told us His name in:

Rev 22:12“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” 14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. 16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

Also in Rev 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

The "Lord God Almighty" uses the exact same title as Jesus does in Rev 22 --> The Alpha and the Omega.

So coupled with those excellent verses that ChesterJohn posted above; I pray that this has become very clear to you.

originally posted by: Maigret
a reply to: RandallB

Romans 10:13 says: Rom 10:13 'for, whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved'.

The Old Testament has the Name of the Father, which is the Name the verse in Romans 10:13 is referring to, because this verse is a quote from Joel 2:32 which is in the Old Testament - in other words, YHWH [Yehovah]. So if you're calling on the name of Jesus, instead of Yehovah, in the hope of gaining the promise referred to in Romans 10:13, you're missing out.

You also quoted John 3:16... continue to verse 18, where it says: John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The name of the Son that is commonly used is Jesus, but this is not the name of the Son of God. Surprisingly, Jesus is not the name that God gave His Son. Check it out! A good source is here:- www.nehemiaswall.com... You only need to listen to the first 15 mins.

So much depends on the name of the Son of God that it is not to be dismissed as unimportant.

Wow.... Very confused as to your references...

In Romans 10:13 the term used for Lord is S#2962 kurios.
Which the the exact same Lord word used in Rev 1:8 and Rev 22:20 AND Joel 2:32 (LXX).

In Rev 1:8 we all agree that it is the Lord God Almighty talking because He states that.

Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus

Joel 2:32 LXX (the version quoted by Jesus and used by NT writers) the Hebrew Tetragrammaton JHVH (more likely YHWH) is also translated as S#2962 kurios. So everywhere we turn around in actual scripture the term S#2962 kurios keeps coming up associated with His birth name of Jesus.

So it really looks like Jesus is Pretty Insistent on being called by the name that Gabriel instructed His parents to name Him ----> Jesus and associating the Greek term S#2962 kurios.

Not sure who you are getting all that other stuff from but it really seems like bad scriptural advice ... extremely bad. #Hugs

Don't you think that if it were a matter of salvation that Jesus would have thought to spell it out to His disciples???
Or at least make sure Paul mentioned it or wrote it down later??

But Jesus went out of His way to make sure that we knew His name was Jesus in the Last Book of the Bible -- His final written communication with the church.

a reply to: Maigret

Just had another thot...

You do know of course that you are writing the Lord's name incorrectly - YHWH. You are writing it Left to Right. Hebrew wrote Right to Left HWHY. Wonder if that makes a different in missing out on those Promises??? #Hug

And you are using Pagan Latin letters. That can't be good. Certainly NOT original..... And don't even get started on the correct vowel marks... Correct pronunciation has gotta be incredibly important also for those Promises??? #Hug #Hug

Using the ancient Hebrew Pictographs seems to be the safest path to take.

Thus the Lord's name would be:


Again, Reading Right to Left we have (in Latin Letters) HWHY.

All of the Hebrew Pictographs had meanings.



The meanings of course are conceptual.
Y or Yud has the meaning of Work or Arm or Hand
H or Hey has the meaning of Look or Reveal or Behold
W or Vav has the meaning of Tent Peg or Hook or Nail
H or Hey has the meaning of Look or Reveal or Behold

So the conceptual meaning of those letters would mean:

"Hand Behold Nail Behold"

Or slightly more Westernized (which has a different noun/verb sequence):

"Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail"

So for some reason, from the very beginning, this "Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail" message was in those ancient Hebrews' minds when they read (silently of course) their Lord's Name in scripture.

a reply to: ChesterJohn


No... Jesus is a Latin name given by the Catholic Church - not by God. If you'd watched that video, you would get that point.

a reply to: RandallB


You said:

Quote: 'Also in Rev 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” The "Lord God Almighty" uses the exact same title as Jesus does in Rev 22 --> The Alpha and the Omega.' End of Quote. Emphasis mine.

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore,

Give to each his due - God Almighty the first and last [and only] God who is, was and will be - always. The Son, the first and last Son, lived, was dead but now is alive. There is a distinct distinction between the two!

You also referenced Rev 22:13, where the Son is talking, and rightly saying "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last". Because he is the first and last, beginning and end [for salvation] only begotten and anointed Son of God. He goes on to say:
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city". Who is the 'His' that he is talking about then? That isn't explained in your reading of the texts.

files.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: RandallB

Thanks for the hugs - appreciated!


Now I'm confused. Where do you get that the term for Lord in S#2962?

I got

Lord means 'master' or 'boss' - 1Co 8:5 'It's really not important if there are things called gods in heaven or on earth--and there are many of these "gods" and "lords" [kurios] out there'.



Jesus is Latin and that is the name given in the Catholic / Latin translations of the Bible. That doesn't automatically make it genuine!

Peace. *hugs*

a reply to: RandallB


If you prefer then, Rev 1:8 “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, Beginning and End,” says יהוה “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Rev 1:1 'Revelation of יהושע Messiah, which Elohim gave him to show his servants what has to take place...

See - it depends on which Bible you use and which version can be trusted the most.

a reply to: Maigret

First, Jesus is an English transliteration from the Greek Ἰησοῦς Iesous.

Second, Are you denying the accuracy of scripture?

Matt 1:20-25 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Luke 1:30-33 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luke 2:21 ¶ And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

I will call you on it and stick to the preserved word of God as true and accurate.

I did watch the video and checked what he taught by the preserved word of God. He was wrong and the preserved word of God is correct.

Under the Kingdom Gospel it is Faith first, doing what God wanted Israel to do which was follow his commandments, then they would get the gift of the Holy Ghost and in the end get Salvation.

Under the Gospel of the grace of God it is faith First, get Justified and saved, Baptised into Christ, get the Holy Ghost as a seal of redemption, then do what God wants but it wasn't following the law of Moses it was living a new life in Christ.

You see the order is a bit different in Paul's teaching and it is important to compare all of Paul's teaching especially from Romans, because Romans is the doctrines for this current dispensation. Remember that the Holy Ghost teacheth by comparing spiritual things to Spiritual.

Faith, works and Grace are all parts of salvation in any dispensation. Under the gospel of the Kingdom is it Faith, do the Works of the law and in the end get the grace. Under the gospel of the grace of God it is Faith, get the grace and do good works.

originally posted by: Jonbet
I am making this thread in order to address a fallacy stated by someone that the Jews have a different Gospel and Jesus message of the Kingdom was only for the Jews.

That is a vile lie in the name of Christ and I have no choice but to address it in the most public fashion so that hopefully this person will recognize how erroneous and inheritantly racially bias this line of thinking is.

It is dangerous to think that our Lord and Saviour was only here to preach to the Jews. It is also wrong, and in no way is Jesus statement about the lost sheep of Israel designed to instill belief that Jesus was only here to save Israel.

I will disprove this fallacy with scripture. First Jesus, then Paul

John 10:16

I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be ONE flock, ONE shepherd. ..."

Romans 10:11-13

The scripture says, " No one who believes in him will be put to shame." For there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile; the same Lord is Lord of all and is generous to ALL who call on him. For, " Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

As I type this there is an infomercial on selling miracle water in the name of Christ. I can't help but think that this person must have gotten this deranged interpretation of the message of Christ from some like kind of snake oil salesmen.

Hopefully said person will recognize the error in believing in such a devilish doctrine that scripture doesn't support, in fact refutes entirely.

We should pray that people recognize that our Lord makes no distinction between Jew and Gentile. Jesus is not racially bias.

Amen.

Paul was not an earthly kingdom program apostle, God had no need for an additional apostle to fulfill the program of Israel’s promised earthly kingdom. Everything related to Israel’s program comes with the number twelve, God did not add a thirteenth to that program.

Israel’s promised kingdom was right at their doorstep, right within their grasp, but that promised program was put on hold. The very blood that was to initiate Israel’s New Covenant, we have a fellowship in that, we have a communion with that blood, it’s the blood that redeemed us as well.

Paul’s message is unique and distinct from the message of Jesus Christ and the 12 apostles, there is difference in God’s earthly program and God’s heavenly program, what traditions of people must be left behind if we take the doctrine of Paul seriously?

a reply to: ChesterJohn


You call me on it? Sounds like you play poker? Well, you have a pair to my royal flush.

I have fulfilled the prophecy in John 6:45 - “It has been written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by יהוה.’ Everyone, then, who has heard from the Father, and learned, comes to me". יהוה told me audibly, "The name of My son is not Jesus".

I heard... and I learned. Where do you think I get all my detailed information from? Without the Holy Spirit you cannot understand the Scriptures.

יהושע says in Matthew 24:9 (in effect), "They are going to kill you over my name" - and he doesn't have to say who 'they' are; I know exactly who he means, and who is going to be doing the killing, and why!

You'll see these killings for yourself - then remember what I've told you!

originally posted by: Maigret

files.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: RandallB

Thanks for the hugs - appreciated!


Now I'm confused. Where do you get that the term for Lord in S#2962?

I got

****

I used the LXX Septuagint Greek version of the OT. That is the version that Jesus and the NT writers (especially Paul) used for their OT quotes. Therefore it certainly is scripture and has a much older pedigree by about 7 centuries than the Hebrew Masoretic Text.

originally posted by: Maigret
a reply to: ChesterJohn


You call me on it? Sounds like you play poker? Well, you have a pair to my royal flush.

I have fulfilled the prophecy in John 6:45 - “It has been written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by יהוה.’ Everyone, then, who has heard from the Father, and learned, comes to me". יהוה told me audibly, "The name of My son is not Jesus".

I heard... and I learned. Where do you think I get all my detailed information from? Without the Holy Spirit you cannot understand the Scriptures.

יהושע says in Matthew 24:9 (in effect), "They are going to kill you over my name" - and he doesn't have to say who 'they' are; I know exactly who he means, and who is going to be doing the killing, and why!

You'll see these killings for yourself - then remember what I've told you!

Before that kingdom could be realized, there was a prophetic event that had to take place first. The way Jesus taught has special application to that tribulation period.