Boeing 737 from Dubai crashes in southern Russia

FlyDubai expressed no concerns about the 737, or Boeing. They are expecting a new delivery of aircraft starting in 2017. They have stated they have no intention of reconsidering the order for 11 new 737-800s, and 100 737 Max aircraft. The 737 is the most popular commercial aircraft in the world, with one taking off somewhere in the world every three seconds.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Sadly, its the plane i fly on the most hoping around Europe. I love everything about planes, but i cant get excited about the 737.

Boring.

Yet again, it would appear that poor crew coordination killed a planeload of people. I've talked about it several times in the aviation forum. We're going back to where we were when the Tenerife Disaster occurred.

The aircraft was at just under 900 feet, when one of the pilots hit the TO/GA button, which automatically started a climb. Because of the winds, they're saying the autothrottle wasn't operating properly. The autopilot began to climb, as it was supposed to, but as it did, the autopilot was disconnected by one of the pilots. The other began questioning him, as the aircraft was climbing, and began losing speed.

At that point, one pilot began saying "Stop! Stop!" and pushing forward on the control column to stop the climb. The other pilot pushed the throttles forward and commanded a climb, resulting in conflicting control inputs. The crew didn't begin to work together until the nose passed through 45 degrees nose low, and they passed through 200 mph.

rbth.com...

Russia is yet again threatening to cancel the 737 operating certificate for all Russian airlines. Which is funny, because it would hurt their airlines far more than it would Boeing, as they don't have anything that can take its place. The SuperJet, which is the closest, isn't anywhere near the production numbers required to replace the 737.

a reply to: Zaphod58

A Takeoff/Go-around switch (TO/GA) is a switch on the autothrottle of modern large aircraft, with two modes: takeoff (TO) and go-around (GA).

This is really something which need to be investigated for the safety of pilots and passengers.

a reply to: earthling42

Nice find! That is sad. I just hope with all the pilots sending emails about not sleeping, things will change.

a reply to: Quantum12

As long as they follow the requirements for time off for the crews, they're not doing anything wrong. It's like truck drivers. Yes, we have lives outside the truck, but when we know we have to work, it's on us to get enough sleep before starting out again. The UAE requires one day off every seven and two every 14. As long as FlyDubai meets that, there's not a lot that can be done.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I see your point. My cousin is a truck driver. I have a high respect for truck drivers. My cousin drives from Califorina to Las Vegas. This is his route daily. He does get a days rest and is back driving. Have you ever driven from Los Angeles to Vegas? A lot of hills and mountain passes. A scary drive in a car let alone a truck.

a reply to: Zaphod58

You should start a thread about trucks. Trucks amaze me. I want to know about trucks and frost law. I see trucks with all the wheels up some days then down. I dont get it but I am sure you do!

On approaching the airport at Bournemouth UK, a serious incident occurred when a 737 was almost in a complete stall.
In Norway something similar occured in December 2012 due to a frosen elevator, but the most striking similarity is the 737 that crashed in Kasan.

a reply to: earthling42

Bournemouth was caused by the crew failing to notice the autothrottle disconnected and failed to manage their airspeed.

Norway was caused by deicing fluids entering the tail cone, and freezing on three elevator PCUs.

Tartarstan was pilot error.

The recorders show that there were no technical problems with the aircraft at the time of the crash.

originally posted by: Quantum12
a reply to: Zaphod58

A Takeoff/Go-around switch (TO/GA) is a switch on the autothrottle of modern large aircraft, with two modes: takeoff (TO) and go-around (GA).

In the B737-NG in manual flight it will give input to the flight director for go around pitch.

On autopilot single channel it will disconnect the autopilot and give flight director guidance for about 2000 ft/min with single click, and the autothrottle will set thrust to achieve that if connected. Double click will give max rated thrust and the flight director will give guidance for that.

On autopilot dual channel single click on to/ga buttons will result in a 2000 ft/min climb with thrust necessary to achieve that.
Double click will activate "homesick angel mode" with max rated thrust.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: earthling42

Norway was caused by deicing fluids entering the tail cone, and freezing on three elevator PCUs.

Two PCU connector rods froze and got stuck, they still had h-stab trim control.

Calls have begun for better pilot training in go around situations. Pilots rarely use tart training so they don't train for it much. This crash was remarkably similar to the Tartarstan 737 crash in which the crew became overwhelmed performing a go around, and suffered somatogravic illusion, which resulted in them pushing the control column full forward until they dove into the ground.

The first go around for FlyDubai they averaged a little over 2,200 fpm up to 8,000 feet. On the second they went more nose up and averaged 3,200 with a peak of 5,000 fpm.

It's a free subscription to read.
m.aviationweek.com...

originally posted by: Zaphod58
Calls have begun for better pilot training in go around situations. Pilots rarely use tart training so they don't train for it much. This crash was remarkably similar to the Tartarstan 737 crash in which the crew became overwhelmed performing a go around, and suffered somatogravic illusion, which resulted in them pushing the control column full forward until they dove into the ground.

The first go around for FlyDubai they averaged a little over 2,200 fpm up to 8,000 feet. On the second they went more nose up and averaged 3,200 with a peak of 5,000 fpm.

It's a free subscription to read.
m.aviationweek.com...

Thanks for the link

originally posted by: Quantum12
a reply to: research100

I agree, he should have known with all his flying hours. He should have diverted to another airport that did not have weather issues. If I was a pilot I would not circle the airport for 2 hours. 1/2 hour at the most!

It costs the airline mega bucks when you deviate from you intended airport. The airline has to house and feed the passengers and transport them back to the original destination. The airline also doesn't have the revenue generating airplane in service. Holding for two hours may be cheaper than deviating. The airline only thinks about one thing and that's making money.

a reply to: buddah6

You have a great point! Money! Nice post

Investigators said the aircraft entered the crowd deck before the elevator went nose down.

Investigators confirmed that simultaneous to the elevator moving to the nose down position, the control column was pushed forward. The elevator moved to a 5 degree nose down position, ultimately resulting in a 50 degree nose down position for the aircraft. The aircraft was traveling near 370 mph at impact.