Birth Rape

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: kaylaluv
They probably don't want to panic mothers by going through the worst case scenarios of what could happen.

As opposed to letting them panic because they don't know what's going on when those scenarios DO happen. Makes sense.

Which is better - going into a crisis moment blind, or going into a crisis moment prepared?

a reply to: kaylaluv
Or being terrified of labour because someone has gone through every terrible thi g that could possibly happen.
When situations arrive they should explain what's happening and then go with what a wo.an wants, not terrorise them by holding them down and forcing procedures on them.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: kaylaluv
Or being terrified of labour because someone has gone through every terrible thi g that could possibly happen.
When situations arrive they should explain what's happening and then go with what a wo.an wants, not terrorise them by holding them down and forcing procedures on them.

I am a strong, feminist woman. I can handle the idea that something might go wrong with my delivery. I can take charge of my own delivery by being prepared. I am smart enough to know that when the moment comes and something goes wrong, I may not be in the best state of mind to make decisions at that time, so I prepare by making the decisions ahead of time. That way, when I go into delivery, I am less stressed, because I know that I am prepared - that I have a plan that was made with my doctor ahead of time.

Makes sense?

a reply to: MOMof3

What does that have to do with me asking you whether your choice to not have an intervention in your birthing "schedule" may impact the mental and physical health of your baby?

Your husband's nutsack is not a living, breathing lifeform.

a reply to: kaylaluv
"Everyone has a plan 'til you get punched in the mouth"

a reply to: MOMof3

Im not sure how thats the case. To me (and a lot of people) a few little cells is not a human. However a baby that about to come out of a women and live on their own is OBVIOUSLY A HUMAN lol.

I clearly stated with time limits and within reason.

originally posted by: IvyNeptune
a reply to: s3cz0ne

I TOTALLY AGREE.

I recently had a huge argument with someone because I made the statement that some social changes that came with the feminist movement were not so positive, such as chivalry dying, and the fact that its more frowned upon now to be a stay at home mum. And also that if the biggest pressure in my life was that I had to get a husband by 25, I could have handled that hahaha. This women acted as if I was saying women deserve to be killed and are second class citizens. -_-

I was really only speaking lightheartedly about it and suddenly it was a huge issue (to be fair tequila was involved but you know what I'm saying.)

Thank you. Seriously. My wife sometimes feels like the odd one out when conversing with other women. She is not angry that she had the hands of three different people in her vagina while delivering. She is grateful. They saved her life by removing her placenta and preventing her from bleeding to death or needing a transfusion.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: misnomer68

Oh give me a break. I had a third child because my husband would not do the simple procedure of a vasectomy. I am not baffled at all by that thinking, it is his body.

God forbid you use a condom

a reply to: kaylaluv

I agree with your standpoint 100%. User WilsonWilson saying they shouldnt discuss the risks involved with giving birth is LUDICRIS. Thats seems completely irresponsible on both the doctor and the mothers part.
I completely agree that with a lot of these women that it seems like they were unaware that giving birth isn't always a magical pony ride.

Im yet to have birth but i work in a female dominated industry so ive heard all kinds of stories about the horrors that can come with giving birth. I understand that during birth feeling terrified or maybe not wanting certain things because you are afraid makes sense.. but i seriously hope in that situation a doctor would take charge and save mine and the babies life.

a reply to: IvyNeptune

They're kinda hard to get in the Western world... I'm not sure that anyone even sells them, let alone gives them away...

EDIT: CONDOMS

originally posted by: IvyNeptune
a reply to: kaylaluv

I agree with your standpoint 100%. User WilsonWilson saying they shouldnt discuss the risks involved with giving birth is LUDICRIS. Thats seems completely irresponsible on both the doctor and the mothers part.
I completely agree that with a lot of these women that it seems like they were unaware that giving birth isn't always a magical pony ride.

Im yet to have birth but i work in a female dominated industry so ive heard all kinds of stories about the horrors that can come with giving birth. I understand that during birth feeling terrified or maybe not wanting certain things because you are afraid makes sense.. but i seriously hope in that situation a doctor would take charge and save mine and the babies life.

Your last paragraph is entirely stupid! Why on Earth would any doctor dare to save your life or that of your child's? What strange world are you from? Seriously!?!?!?

a reply to: s3cz0ne

Watch out i think you got some sarcasm on me.



You know WilsonWilson is totally right. My female brain is much too small to hear the risks and know all the outcomes before hand. Id much rather start my birth (an outcome from how hard it is to get the snip or use protection in the western world) laying on cotton candy with angels playing harps. And then have them try and explain it to me while im high on pain meds trying to push a watermelon out and thinking im going to die... that sounds much better than being well informed #BREAKTHESILENCE

originally posted by: IvyNeptune
a reply to: s3cz0ne

Watch out i think you got some sarcasm on me.

I think I've given you too many stars dammit!

But seriously, thank you for shedding light on this topic. It is absolutely absurd. I'm almost considering #ProstateRape. Why the heck not. Right?

My ass. My choice. Lube required.

I've got at least 15 more.

You're clueless if you think that women can't be raped by "health professionals" during pregnancy, including labor. Remember consent!
a reply to: IvyNeptune

a reply to: cfnyaami

Youre clueless if you think I said anywhere that women could not be raped during pregnancy, including labour.
A doctor failing to get consent while trying to deliver your baby is not SEXUAL ASSAULT.

Rape by definition is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration perpetrated against a person without that person's consent.
key word SEXUAL

So yes if the doctor put his dick or something else inside you with SEXUAL INTENT and not because you are giving birth and the baby comes out of your vagina then yes this is rape. but this is NOT what the women are complaining off.
Your response makes me think that you have no read my post or done any of your own research into the matter im even speaking about

a reply to: cfnyaami

In-fact Im positive you didn't read my post.
I very clearly stated that not only is birth traumatic, but that doctors are totally capable of malpractice.

And I ask you this regarding consent.. at what stage does the baby also have rights.
I support 'my body my rights' to a certain degree. Im not against abortion in the first few months.
but surely if you have carried the baby to full term, and then walked into a hospital (or been wheeled in) then you are consenting to being looked after by the doctors and medical staff and surely the baby has some kind of right to live just as much as you do. What are your opinions on the rights of the baby to live?
Its a complicated line.

a reply to: IvyNeptune

Got it now. So this is an anti abortion thread disguised as someone concerned. Sleazy.

a reply to: MOMof3

How can this be an anti-abortion thread when she said she is pro-choice?

I agree that the word 'rape' is not appropriate for what they're describing. Just like I'll read an article about a woman being 'sexually assaulted' only to find that someone grabbed her ass. Not the same thing, sorry.

But...
I am disgusted by how cookie cutter medicine has become. How doctors take no time or interest in getting to know patients as individuals and basically ignore people's concerns or opinions about their own bodies. And I hate to sound like a feminazi, but it seriously is worse for women than for men.

I had one doctor threaten to stop prescribing a needed medication if I didn't stop smoking. I'm not a serious smoker, I'll smoke for a couple of months and stop for a couple of months. Yeah, it's dumb but it's my choice to be dumb. So with this doctor I ended up lying. Now what kind of patient/doctor relationship is that where it's all BS just to get a needed medication?

My #1 gripe with docs is the dreaded pap smear. I've became disabled in 2011 with severe PTSD/anxiety disorder. I CAN NOT do a pap smear. I go into full on anxiety attack just thinking/talking about it. There's nothing wrong down there. No STD's (which all but HPV can be detected by urine or blood and they can't do anything about HPV anyway). And if I had cancer I'm sure there would be some kind of symptom. And I know, I know, early detection blah blah blah.

I had one doc refuse to prescribe birth control unless I did it. Even though I wasn't sexually active, I was using birth control to regulate my hormones.

I'm currently pregnant and the last OBGYN I went to rushed through the appointment, not really listening or caring about anything I had to say about my history. Didn't even address the fact that I was a bawling mess (anxiety attack) even talking about a pap smear. Surprised me by saying "Well it's your body, I can't make you do it." but then was a total dick from that point on. I asked him about something totally unrelated and he responded with "Well you won't let me examine you, so I'm not going to do that." Even though one had absolutely nothing to do with the other. It's like he was taking it personally that I didn't want him up in my vag.

Next month I'm going to yet ANOTHER doctor and I've already made the decision to lie my ass off. It's just really sad that you can't be honest with your doctor. That they don't listen to you. That they try to force things on you that you don't want to do. And everyone just blindly trusts that doctors know what they're doing and it's in your best interest...but that's not always the case. If the doctors were actually taking people's concerns seriously I'm sure more compromises could be made where both parties are satisfied with the results.

originally posted by: IvyNeptune
a reply to: cfnyaami

And I ask you this regarding consent.. at what stage does the baby also have rights.
I support 'my body my rights' to a certain degree. Im not against abortion in the first few months.
but surely if you have carried the baby to full term, and then walked into a hospital (or been wheeled in) then you are consenting to being looked after by the doctors and medical staff and surely the baby has some kind of right to live just as much as you do. What are your opinions on the rights of the baby to live?
Its a complicated line.

A "baby's rights" during the birthing process itself? At that point, the baby is viable. A safe delivery is the main concern for both parties, along with the mother's right to refuse unneeded procedures or surgery.

To speak to "baby's rights" in any other context than birth, the law is "viability." Can the baby survive (with medical intervention included) without the mother's body - that is where we start to draw firm lines, So, obviously, a baby is generally going to be "viable" (unless stillborn) at birth. That means it gets to have its life be equal to the mothers.

The doctors have liability to consider, on their part, so if a baby is injured or dies due to their actions, they can be sued out the wazoo. Doctors are protecting themselves from liability as much as protecting the baby, if not more. At the point of delivery, they tend to force their will in regards to protocols that they believe will do both things - increase safety and decrease liability. The comfort and will of the mother is secondary to those other goals.

Look, I get it. We want babies born alive and healthy. We want women to survive childbirth safely. It would be nice if that didn't include forcing procedures, surgeries or equipment on women going through an incredibly stressful, excruciatingly painful event, that are not expressly medically needed. It would be nice if the mother and the docs had a plan with contingencies firmly in place before hand that they both agreed to, in order to avoid this sort of "factory/assembly line birth."

I don't think that the VAST majority of women out there are going to blink twice if something is 100% legitimately needed for the health and safety of their baby - that is instinctual.

However, there are a lot of ways in which the entire birth experience could be vastly improved. What is so hard about wanting both a healthy, safely born baby, and to be treated with respect and dignity during the process of birth? What is wrong about calling out practices that are painful, violating, and not life-or-death for the baby? Obviously here, I'm not talking about emergencies, but normal birthing.

Calling it "rape" is extreme, but NOT saying anything is an abuse of silence - since when was it not okay for someone to speak out about being mistreated by medical staff or doctors??

If the word "rape" is the issue then perhaps they have not helped themselves by using that word, but where are the men here? Where are the men who think women should not be violated? Where are the men who would defend women during their most vulnerable moment?

I see a lot of guys (not OP) being judgmental and dismissive. I have ZERO respect for that. You see these women as simply "complainers" and you feel they may have politics or "feminist" views that you don't like - so you bash them PERSONALLY. Imagine a woman you loved had gone through a medically-unnecessary and violating procedure when she was helpless. Can you? Does that thought make you angry at all? Does it stir any primal protective feelings???


AB