16 year old girl dies after being beat into a coma by her 34 year old boyfriend-- CINCINNATI

a reply to: Atsbhct

Right, as someone else said like a 16 and an 18 year old isn't a big deal,
I'm soon to be 25 but when I was 17, I met my sons father. He was 20 at the time. We were pretty close on the maturity scale there.

But at 17, i'd have had no business sleeping with someone say 25+ nor would they have any business sleeping with me.

The laws need to be refined, to either a higher consent age, or there needs to be clarifying text with an age range.

Either way, somethings gotta give, am I right?

-Alee

originally posted by: NerdGoddess I wish it was 18 in Ohio.

I really feel the age of consent should just be 18, because if her parents are expected to take care of her, and be held responsible for her until shes 18 then they should be allowed to say she can't date a 34 year old, until she's 18.

Agreed,...if only she was 18, then it wouldn't have mattered...but losing a 16 year old, this is terrible.





why 18? why not 20? or 22?
why not 30?

what defines a mental capacity to consent to intercourse? shouldn't it be a nearly individual thing or is it a biological thing? if its mental, then whats the qualifiers? and if its physical, then shouldn't it be any time after period?

originally posted by: NerdGoddess
But at 17, i'd have had no business sleeping with someone say 25+ nor would they have any business sleeping with me.

The laws need to be refined, to either a higher consent age, or there needs to be clarifying text with an age range.

Either way, somethings gotta give, am I right?

-Alee

When I was 17, I was dating a woman of 36 for a year. it was perhaps one of the most fun and normal relationships I had.
I guess I just matured more than you at that age. -shrugs-

But no thanks for refining laws to say I wasn't mature at that time...thats basically you speaking for yourself.

dont turn a tragity into some sort of political movement to raise the age to whatever you deem approprate..30 or whatever.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: NerdGoddess I wish it was 18 in Ohio.

I really feel the age of consent should just be 18, because if her parents are expected to take care of her, and be held responsible for her until shes 18 then they should be allowed to say she can't date a 34 year old, until she's 18.

Agreed,...if only she was 18, then it wouldn't have mattered...but losing a 16 year old, this is terrible.

why 18? why not 20? or 22?
why not 30?

what defines a mental capacity to consent to intercourse? shouldn't it be a nearly individual thing or is it a biological thing? if its mental, then whats the qualifiers? and if its physical, then shouldn't it be any time after period?

That is not at all what I was insinuating and you should know that. If you didn't know that, and you honestly think I'm saying at 18 it wouldn't matter if she had been beaten to death or not, then you need to go take a nap, and return to this thread when you can be serious.

Much is to be desired with this If he was capable of beating her to death, there should have been warning signs & red flags for people to pick up on in the first place, I'd assume. It's not so much the age gap that has me floored (any teenage boy with anger/rage issues could have also done this) it's how someone with such a violent inclination had any iffy behaviors completely missed by those around them.

originally posted by: Edumakated

Maturity gaps become less extreme as people get older.

Teenagers have nothing in common with people in their 20s

People in their 20s have nothing in common with people in their 30s...

However, it is not out of the ordinary for someone in their 40s to find common ground with someone in their 30s. The maturity level gap starts shrinking dramatically.

A 50s person can certainly find a match to someone in their late 30s or 40s. A 60 year old with a 40 something isn't that big of a reach.

All kinds of wrong here, namely that you think my 20 year old self couldn't possibly have had something in common with my then 33 year old boyfriend (whom is now my husband of 10 years) Age is just a number, maturity is a state of mind. No one's arguing than a juvenile mind is still developing well into it's 20's, but to lump age gaps among adults in with child-like teenage naivete is naive itself.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Edumakated
Teenagers have nothing in common with people in their 20s

People in their 20s have nothing in common with people in their 30s...

However, it is not out of the ordinary for someone in their 40s to find common ground with someone in their 30s. The maturity level gap starts shrinking dramatically.

..citation needed
What about a immature as hell 22 year old with a 17 year old?
What about a 25 year old with a 32 year old?

I have had numerous things in common with people half my age (I am a avid gamer / 3d mesh builder and sci-fi fanatic) and have found maturity is a...fluid thing. I have noticed people in their late 50s to be just as edgy and wild as someone in their 20s, and someone in their 20s mentally older than my actual parents..which isn't a good thing (older mindset after late teens is basically just becoming more cynical and less interested in joyful hobbies)

I would say it may be difficult to find lots of common ground in multiple areas with say, a teen and a 40 year old, but thats just from different references. dont try to attribute math to human connections is basically the point here.

There are always exceptions to the rule...

Having minor hobbies in common with people younger than you does not mean they would make a good life partner. I race remote control cars. I am in my 40s. I am often hanging out at the track with teenagers who also enjoy the hobby. However, this is about where our interest ends. I have a career, wife, mortgage, child, etc... I have adult responsibilities. So what if I share the interest of a 18 year old for a few hours on the weekend?

Most 30 somethings beyond occasional hobbies that may span a variety of ages or whatever should have nothing in common with a teenager beyond that...

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: NerdGoddess
But at 17, i'd have had no business sleeping with someone say 25+ nor would they have any business sleeping with me.

The laws need to be refined, to either a higher consent age, or there needs to be clarifying text with an age range.

Either way, somethings gotta give, am I right?

-Alee

When I was 17, I was dating a woman of 36 for a year. it was perhaps one of the most fun and normal relationships I had.
I guess I just matured more than you at that age. -shrugs-

But no thanks for refining laws to say I wasn't mature at that time...thats basically you speaking for yourself.

dont turn a tragity into some sort of political movement to raise the age to whatever you deem approprate..30 or whatever.

See that's fine that you feel that way, and again, is why i made this post, so thank you for sharing that. I will say, that's wonderful that the relationship worked out for you, and I appreciate you offering your point of view, especially on raising the age of consent. We may disagree, but that's fine.

Do you really believe it's the laws fault this happened?

That a man willing to beat someone into a coma would have stopped and thought about the consequences of doing such a thing only had the law stated that the age of consent was 18?

Amending a law in response to something like this is laughable at best.

originally posted by: NerdGoddess

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: NerdGoddess I wish it was 18 in Ohio.

I really feel the age of consent should just be 18, because if her parents are expected to take care of her, and be held responsible for her until shes 18 then they should be allowed to say she can't date a 34 year old, until she's 18.

Agreed,...if only she was 18, then it wouldn't have mattered...but losing a 16 year old, this is terrible.

why 18? why not 20? or 22?
why not 30?

what defines a mental capacity to consent to intercourse? shouldn't it be a nearly individual thing or is it a biological thing? if its mental, then whats the qualifiers? and if its physical, then shouldn't it be any time after period?

That is not at all what I was insinuating and you should know that. If you didn't know that, and you honestly think I'm saying at 18 it wouldn't matter if she had been beaten to death or not, then you need to go take a nap, and return to this thread when you can be serious.

Well lets see what you said

should be allowed to say she can't date a 34 year old, until she's 18.

Why? you think he would be less of a murderous scumbag in 2 years?
thats exactly what you insinuated..not consciously, but you are focused on a arbitrary value like it has meaning.
I was showing you the absurdity that is the direct result of this issue

16 is fine for a person to consent..they are fully capable of making deicisons. historically people lead armies at 16, got married off at 13/14, etc. they arent babies.
you know what sucks about this story?....some dude beat a woman to death..who cares the age..16, 18, he followed the law and would have waited a couple years to hook up..and then no doubt fly off the handle and beat to death.

This would be a better discussion on signs of neoaggressive traits, maybe mental disorder, dont know, all we know about the case being presented here is the age. So what..both were consenting adults, now lets discuss what motivates a person to murder another if this is something concerning...but its not..its a sad story without any real learning more than likely.

a reply to: corvuscorrax

Not entirely, no. This is just one aspect that bothers me about this whole thing. Her parents TRIED to keep her away from this man, so this tragedy is really a combination of a lot of things. But they did what they thought would help, and the police told them, they couldn't do anything because the way our law is written, does not provide them authority to arrest that man for their relationship.

What I'm thinking is, as a parent, what can you do? What can possibly be done, when you're expected to be responsible for the child until they are 18, but the law says, they can put themselves in danger with whoever they want, at 16? It's confusing, and as a parent, it scares me. That's all.

-Alee

a reply to: SaturnFX

No, I see what you are saying I think, but maybe you're misunderstanding me, and I'm not sure how else I can word it. Not great with words.

You're right, he'd be a murderous douche bag regardless of his age or her age, I simply wish that when the parents asked for help the first time, that they hadn't been abandoned because of a law. Now they are left with people commenting all over the enquirers post on facebook "where were her parents" "her parents should be punished" and it drives me nuts. They did try! They were punished, shes dead! It doesn't get worse than losing your child and being left to wonder if you could have done anything else to save her.

-Alee

originally posted by: Edumakated
Having minor hobbies in common with people younger than you does not mean they would make a good life partner.

Depends on the minor aspect of it one would think.
what major external views do you believe you would have that a fairly quick learn 20 year old wouldn't have?

I have a career, wife, mortgage, child, etc... I have adult responsibilities.

I had all of those starting age 23. my older brother and older sister both started those at 17
adult responsibilities? ok..but that tends to happen to teens

should have nothing in common with a teenager beyond that...

Ahh, I see.
wording here is key...not "rarely have" or "its uncommon for". you used the term "should". this is a cultural view you have, not an observation..its not that they cant, or dont, its that in your mind, it is a sort of society taboo.
Its a "ageist" mindset (yes, thats a thing). its like how back in the 30s-50s kind of era, how white people shouldn't have major things in common with black people, or back at the turn of last century how men shouldn't have things outside of basic homemaking roles, in common with women.
its dumb really...but whatever, you only rob yourself of potentially rewarding relationships and views either side.

Personally, I always got along far better with people 20+ years my senior..not just for relationships, but just in general. drinking coffee discussing world events at the donut shop daily, going out to see movies with people in their 50s as I was a 20 year old..It was the normal thing for everyone to integrate..someone forgot to tell us to stick to our own kind.....thank god.

All I can say is that if the parents tried to stop this and failed then she clearly had very little respect for her parents(or herself for that matter) if any.

originally posted by: NerdGoddess
a reply to: corvuscorrax

Not entirely, no. This is just one aspect that bothers me about this whole thing. Her parents TRIED to keep her away from this man, so this tragedy is really a combination of a lot of things. But they did what they thought would help, and the police told them, they couldn't do anything because the way our law is written, does not provide them authority to arrest that man for their relationship.

What I'm thinking is, as a parent, what can you do? What can possibly be done, when you're expected to be responsible for the child until they are 18, but the law says, they can put themselves in danger with whoever they want, at 16? It's confusing, and as a parent, it scares me. That's all.

-Alee

Street justice is the last resort. A baseball bat to the knees might get the message across. If the guy was a real dirtbag and there is plenty of documentation to show that the parents went to police and they did nothing and the girl was being abused, I'd keep record of it. I'd bet a jury wouldn't convict under that circumstance.

There was a story last year or so I believe where a jury declined to convict a man in TX who caught some guy in the act of raping his daughter. He beat the man to death. Jury didn't convict.

The problem in these cases though is that the abused often times does not want to admit they are abused. The girl would probably hold it against her parents.

It is every parent's nightmare.

Some of you have expressed that you don't believe changing the consent age law would make a difference. That's fine I appreciate the variety of opinions and responses, even if we personally disagree with each other, because I think we can all agree that this man is sick, and has no place in society.

-Alee

originally posted by: NerdGoddess
It doesn't get worse than losing your child and being left to wonder if you could have done anything else to save her.

-Alee

Hard to say given the circumstances are unknown.
Often when a very young white girl is dating a older black male, and I honestly am not trying to be racist here, but just going with common moa, there is drugs involved. If thats the case, then there is a number of things going on here..rehab would have been good (although rarely works with teens), and police for different reasons for the guy. a man who beats a girl to death has a hyper aggresssive streak, often associated with gang activity..so, this is where the trouble may lie.

just going with what reasonable considerations are being put here..I haven't read the article because its not newsworthy nor of my interest, but the society view is of course..but what is being presented here isnt a age issue, its a cultural issue..and I would bet a good 50 cents drugs is involved somehow...it almost always is (and actually, I hope it is...because it saddens me when its not and I realize this is actually innate human nature)

originally posted by: Edumakated

When I was 34, I would never have considered dating a even a 23 or 24 year old. A 30 something is in an entirely different space in life than a 23 or even 25 year old, much less a 16 year old.

Maturity gaps become less extreme as people get older.

Teenagers have nothing in common with people in their 20s

People in their 20s have nothing in common with people in their 30s...

Your excerpt here, and the post in general does have merit in some points, but is also wrong in others. I was 32 when I met my wife, who was 23 at the time. She was far more mature than most of the 30-ish women I knew and had dated before. We had all kinds of things in common. I was 33 when we married, she was 24. It's 6+ years later, we're perfectly happy, and have 2 children.

That said, in general, I agree that the age gap difference lessens as we grow older. I do think teens should be allowed to make their own choices at 18, but below 18, there should be an age gap that's acceptable. It should be legal for a 17 year old and a 19 year old to be together, for example.

This particular case wasn't caused by age of consent. It was caused by a psychotic murderer who was dating a girl far younger than him, and the parents inability to control or influence their daughter's choices -- I'm not saying it's their fault, but I sure hope I have enough influence with my children for them to make wiser decisions than this poor girl did.

originally posted by: corvuscorrax
All I can say is that if the parents tried to stop this and failed then she clearly had very little respect for her parents(or herself for that matter) if any.

aww hell dude, my overprotective parents rarely approved of anyone any of her sons daughters were seeing..nobody was ever good enough

thing about teens...the people the parents say not to date are the ones you want to date the most..rebellion years and all that.
teens are annoying hormonal creatures, best to wait till at least 20 when they no longer are chemically held hostage

a reply to: SaturnFX

And I completely agree with you on that one Saturn.
Just all around, a real shame. I hope you didn't think that I was trying to discredit your previous relationships or experiences, I was only speaking from my own.

-Alee