Meet the B-21

ok let's get interesting again.


the b21 engines. it's said she may use ADVENT.

it's also said she may have onboard laser capabilities.

As I speculated above the laser could very well be powered via a new duel purpose energy system. produces copious energy to power said laser. can use that same energy elsewhere for other things.

but i speculate that said system is not ADVENT nor Turbine Based Combined Cycle but something else that's likely developed out of the darpa AFRE program.

so what's with the b21 engines? is the b21 much more capable than we are lead to believe?

for instance if you weren't firing a laser you could idle back the turbine and maintain the same speed with this new AFRE "compressor" and "afterburner" "system" giving the bomber unprecedented long range and making her very capable of striking the heart of russia, China or north Korea from the continental USA and would also require less midair refueling and therefore be more independent of the tankers.

what I'd love to know, if it weren't overly complicated, is if you can marry ADVENT with its ability to vary its bypass ratio to conserve fuel with this new "AFRE compressor" and really get the best of everything.

tons of electrical power. tons of overhead with the engine output if needed. an ability in more than one way to extend range and reduce fuel usage. the cooling effects of the ADVENT bypass for both the engine and the potential laser system. fluedic thrust vectoring again in conjunction with the ADVENT. maybe even add something on the very back likely inspired by navy "hydro-acoustics" to smooth jet turbulence to reduce aural signature.

figuring this new "system" would also be scalable. would work great giving drones AFRE. work great giving bombers huge range, loiter, and electrical power for a myriad of systems. give fast movers a simpler easier way to accomplish thsir speeds.

for the fast movers maybe pre condition the air going into the "new compressor" with pico. for one's not needing the duel usage of the Pico since they aren't intended to be fast movers use an E gun. maybe put a bypass door in front of main intake so you get unadulterated air for the ADVENT bypass, fluedic thrust vectoring and cooling. sorta like how a Lamborghini Diablo has that little slit of an intake for the oil coolers just in front of her massive radiator intakes. like a double intake for the turbine. would at least look cool.

finally after startup via generator or alternator, APU(?) or whatever have it power its self.

it would be a very versitile, powerful and very elegant system serving a whole host of needs other than just propulsion.

maybe use it specifically on the b21 in conjunction with the b2 fabled electrified leading edge to generate a encompassing di-electric field, but that's going into something else....

but this "new system" hopefully used on the new b21 would allow a lot of stuff to work efficiently in concert. May take a lot of software to manage everything but the prospects would be interesting.

originally posted by: StargateSG7
"?
Obviously you have your NDA's, but how about giving us here on ATS
a very general nudge nudge wink wink statement from you!

Sorry, I don't have any NDA's or nudge-nudge stuff, just education. I have seen no clear, concrete, scientifically plausible description of how to modify inertia other than the published stuff of James Woodward, and that is a small effect at best and possibly experimental mistake.

I used to work with plasma containment technology a number of years ago.

We converted a water based carbohydrate into a plasma and stored it in a processed heterogeneous, hygroscopic, cellular and anisotropic material, you could carry it around without any issues.

We didnt use it for propulsion though, it was merely a way of transporting and transferring energy.

originally posted by: Forensick
I used to work with plasma containment technology a number of years ago.

We converted a water based carbohydrate into a plasma and stored it in a processed heterogeneous, hygroscopic, cellular and anisotropic material, you could carry it around without any issues.

We didnt use it for propulsion though, it was merely a way of transporting and transferring energy.

---

I think the technical term for an industrial system that you are describing is a "Fuel Cell"
or are you talking about organic-systems oriented "Blood Bag"? I'm kinda not sure whether
to take your words as a literal description or a figurative one!

---

originally posted by: mbkennel

originally posted by: StargateSG7
"?
Obviously you have your NDA's, but how about giving us here on ATS
a very general nudge nudge wink wink statement from you!

Sorry, I don't have any NDA's or nudge-nudge stuff, just education. I have seen no clear, concrete, scientifically plausible description of how to modify inertia other than the published stuff of James Woodward, and that is a small effect at best and possibly experimental mistake.

===
THAT IS A VERY INTERESTING EXAMPLE:

".....James Woodward's hypothesis is based on Mach's principle that posits inertia, the resistance of mass to acceleration, is a result of the mutual gravitational attraction of all matter in the universe. Thus, if the mass of a given object can be varied while being oscillated either in a linear or orbital path, such that the mass is high while the mass is moving in one direction and low while moving back, then the net effect should be acceleration in one direction as the inertial drag of the universe upon the object varies as its mass varies...."

===

The key word is "oscillation" which indicates to me that mass and movement are
inter-related when come to preventing inertia (or gravity!) from having an effect
upon an object. I'm going to use Acoustic Standing Waves as an analogy, where
objects can be balanced upon a standing wave:

Acoustic Levitation Demo at Argonne National Laboratory:
www.youtube.com...

This is an effect where a continuous movement and oscillation of a field
(in this case acoustic waves) SHOULD ALLOW another object (or field!)
to remain balanced upon AND/OR be confined to the area of effect.

In essence Standing Waves are the MACROSCOPIC reality of what
MIGHT BE POSSIBLE at microscopic (i.e. Planck's Length) scales
when it comes to CONFINING INERTIA AND/OR GRAVITY to
specific 3D-XYZ spatial bounds.

By bringing up James Woodward, and after researching further
some his experimental observations, I believe that he has
confirmed my suspicion that confinement of inertia and/or
gravity is more than just theoretically possible!

---

As per my earlier allusions to work done at University of Alberta,
There SEEMS to be some specific experimental results which may
indicate that movement and oscillation of "heavy" masses may
provide "shielding" against gravity/inertia! And the KEY format
for doing so is to use a either a Takomak-like Torus to spin heavy
elements along a given axis...OR...to use a 3D movement/oscillation
of mass (any kind?) within a globular cluster, which on a figurative level
works like the offensive linemen on a football team which protects the
Quarterback from action by outside parties. They guard the quarterback
in a free-moving "pocket" and this analogy should be able to
be expanded in a literal sense to protecting a 3D-space
from action and influence by outside forces such as
gravity or inertia!

a reply to: StargateSG7

I was talking about a deep fried McDonald's Apple Pie.

Sorry.

originally posted by: Forensick
a reply to: StargateSG7

I was talking about a deep fried McDonald's Apple Pie.

Sorry.

Got it...I tend to get quite literal...and was all hyped up
that you may have some super-duper-secret to share on ATS....OH WELL....

originally posted by: BASSPLYR

what secret did you edit out.....let's hear it !!!! Divulge your Secrets !!! ;-) :-)

a reply to: StargateSG7


OK you want some bassplyr secrets I've never shared on ATS. Lets see.....

Um, I secretly used to get so home sick in college that I would put on and watch reruns of Beverly Hills 90210 on mute just so I could watch the images of Los Angeles in the background and be reminded of home.



The post was on metamaterials BTW. It was on topic in regards to the B21 but this forum was probably not the best place for it per se.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: StargateSG7


OK you want some bassplyr secrets I've never shared on ATS. Lets see.....

Um, I secretly used to get so home sick in college that I would put on and watch reruns of Beverly Hills 90210 on mute just so I could watch the images of Los Angeles in the background and be reminded of home.



The post was on metamaterials BTW. It was on topic in regards to the B21 but this forum was probably not the best place for it per se.

aaaaah yes!!!! Negative Refractive Index Metamaterials...

The ability to use fractal-like patterns embedded upon
materials that absorb, reflect, refract or diffract incoming
beams of EM radiation which can be Radar, LIDAR, IR,
Acoustic, even Xray so as to provide stealth in MANY
electromagnetic spectrum bands.

Try these papers:

Negative Refractive Index Metamaterials Supporting 2-D Waves
Ashwin K. Iyer and George V. Eleftheriades
The Edward S. Rogers Sr. Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering, University of Toronto,

It all depends upon the SIZE and placement of the microchannels and microlenses
to modify or TUNE the incoming EM radiation and direct it elsewhere!

Also read ANYTHING by these guys:
Willie J. Padilla†*, Dimitri N. Basov#, David R. Smith#§
†Materials Science & Technologies-Center for Integrated Nanotechnologies, Los Alamos National Laboratory, Los Alamos, NM 87545, USA
#Physics Department, University of California San Diego, San Diego, CA 92037, USA
§Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering, Duke University, Durham, NC 27708, USA

See Presentation Link:
infrared.ucsd.edu/basov_pubs/mt9-28-2006.pdf

---

And for you ATS flight-oriented optical stealthies:

The Cheshire Jet
Harnessing Metamaterials to Achieve an Opt ical Stealth Capability
Timothy E. Beers
Major. USAF
Air Command and S!alf CoUege
www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a604249.pdf

----

RTO-MP-SET-139 - Photonic Metamaterials for Defence and Security Applications:

In April 2008 a workshop on Photonic Metamaterials for Defense and Security Applications was held. Nine of the top researchers in the world in the area of metamaterials were invited to speak to over 50 attendees from government, industry, and academia. Applications discussed included: Optical, thermal, and acoustic cloaks; Improved performance of optical sensor systems; Smaller and more efficient antennas and transmission lines; Super/hyperlenses for improved resolution in optical lithography and optical microscopy.

ftp.rta.nato.int...$MP-SET-139-T.pdf

===

Negative index metamaterials Wiki entry:

en.wikipedia.org...

Tunable metamaterials:
en.wikipedia.org...

===

That's for those of you new to ATS not yet familiar with using
coatings, lenses, microchannels and Em absorbant materials
to modify the properties of EM radiation in specific areas of
entire electromagnetic spectrum from 10 Hertz to One Exahertz+!

Mods.... please?

Can this stuff be moved to another forum. Zaph created a great thread as always, and we would love to discuss, but this stuff and rubbish has no place in the aviation forum.

Unfortunately no one with any credibility would associate themselves with any of this, which is why in this case the 'fluff' doesn't serve the purpose of camouflaging the interesting info.

The only post with any basis of truth or value in the last few pages was the one about a McDonalds apple pie.... I did nearly wet myself when I read that Forensick! :-)

cheers
Robbie

a reply to: stratsys-sws
Yes be back on the B-21 not about the physics

a reply to: stratsys-sws

I agree and disagree with you here robbie.

yes the thread has been steamrolled by superfluous information about metamaterials.

I think it should be left at. metamaterials ....they're pretty interesting and likely a major factor in the b21 effectiveness to evade a wide range of enemy radar systems. and we'll leave it at that.

I disagree that its irrelevant rubbish though. its extremely relevent. just that this probably isn't the right forum to discuss the science behind aviation marvels.

but yeah we don't need someone Google fu-ing and blindly pasting a ton of wiki entries on the subject. I'd love for that to stop.

as for the b21. we know the manufacturer, the sub contractors, that word is the pilots who fly the bird are happy with it.....and we've got a depiction of it released by the air force that looks like a two year old rendered with crayons.

so other than speculation using obvious clues into the technology behind what makes her so amazing what more can we do until more hard info is released.

that is unless folks want to jump on the forum and post a bunch of stuff that will burn their sources.

I dunno I always try and look at the big picture, connect the various pieces of the puzzle. but then I've never been the type to wait around and be spoon feed information.



seriously though whoever's filling the forum with random links to metamaterials. it's cool for one post or two but not all the posts. please stop.

One final comment. it seems like the trend lately is every body wants to know what something can do. (b21 in this case) But nobody wants to learn how things work. I argue that if you understand how something works, you'll understand what it can do. I dunno the opposite approach seems lazy to me

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I dont have time for all that learning crap, I want to know NOW ( stamping foot and spitting dummy out).
Just tell me everything you know !!

originally posted by: nelloh62
a reply to: BASSPLYR

I dont have time for all that learning crap, I want to know NOW ( stamping foot and spitting dummy out).
Just tell me everything you know !!

Et Tu Nellohus?

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Haha. No, I am quietly reading and learning. Thankfully, some of the people on ATS are highly educated and can sometimes put good information out to dummies like me. No-one with an ounce of brainpower is going to divulge anything secret on ANY aircraft. Most of what gets speculated can easily be found on google, and if it cant be found, then its a secret for a reason !!
I quite agree with what you have posted, and we have probably gone as far as we can on finding out about the B-21, without anyone divulging something they shouldnt and getting a free holiday

a reply to: Zaphod58

Hey, we are paying for it so better at least look badass lol. Cant look like Marry Poppins kite if you want people to be scared of your death dealing capabilities. The previous unveiling of the B-2 was enough to make the Soviets shat their pants while throwing up the white flag so this one should be just as revolutionary if they want the same effect.

I will be happy with speed and numbers of them more than anything.

I guess we find out the name tomorrow. I'm going out on a limb here and will state that I doubt the official name will be "China Bomber"

en.yibada.com...