Why and what for is prayer and bowing to a deity is needed IF there is a loving god who takes care?

a reply to: Piney

It's all about quantum physics and using the power of thought to create the outcome you desire.
The reason why prayers go unanswered is because there is no one at the other end to receive it.

It's more effective to use this power by directly directing the thoughts into the universe of what your after.

That's the secret the "church" and "religion" don't want you to know.
We are to kept in the dark about the true powers of our mind and are taught to relinquish all "prayers" to God.

a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

MHO is you are wrong.

Because if that is the case then we are praying into creation and not to the creator.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

MHO is you are wrong.

Because if that is the case then we are praying into creation and not to the creator.

Close. I'm saying we are the creator.

originally posted by: auraofblack
I agree with all of that apart from the part where worship is required, it's not. Now we can get technical and argue the finer points between love and worship and if we adore those we love but I have a little bit of a problem with the if we think of God as a diety that requires things from us to be reabsorbed, sorry allowed into heaven, then what happens when I want to have a long distance relationship? And maybe love God but remain separate and grow?

Religious conspiracy time now....

What if religion is hijacked by something other than God and all prayer is, is a way to turn your spirit into a battery? Is this the difference between what ancient cultures knew that we lack. Seriously, imagine you have the control and influence of a pharaoh, the ability to make massive amounts of people pray what you want... In contrast to today.

Well the religion of christianity has certainly been hijacked over the centurys by more earthly beling's as a method of control and manipulation, even to make money or justify claims to thrones which is perverse the concept of rule by divine right was a creation and is not even part of christianity as Christ is the eternal king so how can there be another king in his kingdom, a king whom walked the land homeless and with no place to rest his head whom told his followers that they were at war with the power's and principality's even in heaven, the rulers in dark places like todays NWO and there spiritual or demonic equivelant's.

But your idea strked a cord with me for a different reason, as you know in quantum theory there is an argument that obersavation changed the outcome of an experiment and that it defines the quantum state such as in Schroedingers cat in the box, he postulated if you put a cat in a box with a vial of cyanide you do not know if the cat is alive or dead until you open the box and observe it but then Quantum theory is half metaphysics and half science.

My thought was that if Consciousness affect's reality then manipulation of that consciousness must allow manipulation to whatver degree the consciousness affects it of that reality.

So imagine a hypothetical alien race, they seed planets with a known species of sentient being's, being's that they have manipulated to live only so long and to stay within a certain bandwidth of consciousness, now by tweaking certain colony's they can manipulate a region of reality which is supported by the conscious band width of these being's and affect not so much changes as manipulations of that reality.

This hypothetical alien race may not even exist within the bandwidth of the consciousness of these proxy sentient race colonies but it may gain something from it, perhaps stability in a region of chaos as the feed back of the belief's and consciousness of the being's in these colony's stabilises that area of reality.

Then again there are supposedly spiritual entity's called vile vortex whom feed on negative human emotion's causing suffering and depression so if these do exist then maybe higher more evolved parasitic entity's also exist so they too could hijack a religion.

Also I have experienced what I believe to be evil spirits but that is another matter and not for this thread but what if we do have a soul but it is vulnerable to these being's, what if there is an entire eco system and the human soul is not the top of the food chain there in whatever other dimension human souls may go to after they leave the quantum interface of the human nervous system with it's quantum processing brain but it is possible that spirit or soul being's simply feed upon the energy of the physical realm.

The hebraic tradition is unique in that it did not have human's created as animals but in the image, the reflection of there creator (not necessarily there body's unless god was recreating a race whom had become pure spirit and were now one with him "Let us create them in our image male and female in our image") but it was a reflection which was corrupted or defiled both by there own flaw and by the nature of the physical universe which is explained as a curse but seem's to have been intended all along like making a child let go of the baby walker and take it's first steps on it's own and if mind can affect reality however slightly maybe as we believe God is the mind that created and supports reality but a mind that however like ours may be it is so much greater and more real, also our life unlike the animals was supposedly somehow different, he breathed into there nostril's is not just breath but soul so what exactly is soul, essence of the creator itself/thereself.

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein

MHO is you are wrong.

Because if that is the case then we are praying into creation and not to the creator.

Close. I'm saying we are the creator.

Romans 1:22, 23 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
So many usernames, it's becoming annoying.

To answer your question, praying is the same thing as meditating, going within yourself and searching for answers there. This is why Jesus said to go into your room (mind) and pray alone, not to a synagogue (church) to be seen by others.

"Praying" (the common practice) does nothing, but meditating (what Jesus actually meant by "prayer") does a lot on a personal level.

I'd opine that is the 'why' behind killing Him? When You go to 'The Church™' You get that person's interpretation of the rule book and in most cases, He, was influenced by whomever taught them. Actually getting further from what they seek. No more passing the hat? Now fast-forward to passing the hat tax free?


To the OP-

I read another post by You in another thread where You asked this and instead of 'snipping' the other member's thread You took the time to author Your own thread and for that I have to type "Thanks" In recent times a newer member would just crap all over the thread and wouldn't stop until they got an answer de-railing that thread so.. thanks again.

I have a question as an atheist.

What has god done to command my respect? Many of you are talking about circumstances in life when one bows, in a dojo, to ones parents etc...and I get that. And agree.

But as far as I can tell god has done nothing to earn my respect. I din't ask him to create me. Certainly didn't ask him to create me with negative heaven credit (original sin).

How egotistical do you have to be to create life then demand it respects you their whole life otherwise you will burn in hell? Oh yeah...He gave us free will then put temptation right in front of us and because of the mistakes of those two...we ALL suffer. I bow to your wisdom god. It's a joke.

He has stood by and watched his flock fall off the wayside and done nothing.

Should I bow and respect him for creating the natural beauty in the world? What about ebola or flesh eating bacteria or terrible diseases that gruesomely kill babies. Should I thank him for birth defects and cancer? THANK YOU GOD for creating cancer and allowing my step father to suffer intolerably during his last 2 months alive. A very very devout Christian i might add. Thank you my lord and saviour!! Please...get real.

I don't believe in God. But if I did I would never in a million years respect him or bow to him. Egotistical and disgusting is what I would say to him if I ever "met" him.

As far as prayer..i totally get the meditative reason for doing it. I'm only anti religion/god..not anti spiritualism. But praying to a god that we are told has a plan seems pretty pointless since its unlikely he will change his master plan just because you want to get that job or want to f*ck the hot girl who serves you at the bagel shop.

But i realise that inconsistency and contradictions won't stop religion.

a reply to: Willingly

If something is good it is to be exalted by the eyes of another -- yes, even by those you love -- that is just the truth of the Spirit.

It is almost like you're saying that if you love someone then you cannot see them doing wrong, but you know that is not true.

Haven't you ever been mad at someone you love? And why mad, unless they've disrespected something that you thought/knew was sacred/solemn/holy? Where do you think anger arises from? It is from a breach in sovereignty/holiness.

But you see, for God, he does not simply behave holy - no - he is holy, and he is sovereign, and so he is to be exalted. That is just the truth of the Spirit: exalt what is good, and be angry when it is not.

originally posted by: Willingly
a reply to: Sahabi


Sure, but what I'm talking about is: bowing five times a day just to get food or praying some prayer just to get accepted by some god or deity, THAT is what find upsetting, personally. And I also find it un-neccessary IF there is a loving god or deity that takes care. Too much hustle.

I find it strange what your considering prayer. When placing your absolute trust in God as a Christian, you can proclaim belief that Jesus died and rose again for our sins and realize you are a sinner and ask for forgiveness... is this what you mean by seeking acceptance from God? Once you place your faith on the meaning of Christ's death and resurrection from the cross you can ask the Lord to keep Christ in your heart, but I'm not sure about asking the Lord to accept you when your promised so much already in having faith in Christ on the cross.
I have asked the lord for help in many personal struggles and found immediate results. I'm usually standing or walking around doing daily things. After my prayers are answered, I thank the Lord... usually more than once and tell God I love him.

a reply to: Willingly

I think commonly when people pray they ask for something commonly or help to themself, or help to others recover etc.
When people do meditation they rather listen what ideas their inner spirit, or Cosmic consciousness might give to them. It is rather connecting the unit consciousness to Cosmic consciousness, and feeling the oneness. Asking something is not really meditation in my opinion. What comes to bending down three times, it is ritual, but it can be also uplifting as the more you spend time on the humble, respecting of CC, God - position, the more it helps to arouse your desire for divine, somehing beyond your daily physical or psychic existence. Perhaps for someone it would be the same to lift hands up for reaching God.

Human being is not only physical, economic, psychic being, but also spritual being and we should have time for spiritual practises, that's what I feel.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Achilles92x

Amen sister.

That is why in the New Testament tells a husband to love his wife. We do tend to think that our hard work to provide for them and our families tell them we love them four times. But you are correct we need to tell our wives and children we love them everyday.

And it also tells the woman to reverence her husband that is because women are able to turn off love like a faucet depending on her feelings. But even if today my wife does not feel she loves me she does still reverence me.

LOL, brother, actually. My example probably suggested that I'm a woman. That's just an example that came to mind-- there are dozens of little things that my girlfriend, for example, wants me to do that to me, as a man, seem trivial! But they make a difference.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

I mean no offense, but I always find questions/arguments like that to be kind of absurd. You, as an atheist, make these statements about God if He existed, yet, if He indeed exists, your subjective statements and opinions are completely invalid to the point of absurdity whether you like it or not. Why? Because if God does indeed exist, your opinion and judgment of Him means absolutely nothing and would necessarily be wrong, seeing as this is His Universe and His creation.

Life is full of suffering. As Christians, we believe the suffering is due to the Fall of Man (regardless of whether one reads the Creation story literally or not, which I personally do not). The Fall of Man corrupted us to our very core and brought about death, and with death came disease and genetic malfunction, etc.

Truthfully, though, God always knew that if He created us with free will that this would all happen -- he is omniscient, after all. We still chose it, but God knew that humanity would fall. It's easy to think that it's messed up... But I would argue you're not thinking big enough. Would you rather be robots without free will, without the ability to love? I wouldn't. God knew humanity would fall.. So why did he create us? Perhaps because he sees the grand scheme of things, perhaps because he's infinitely wise. You don't agree with how he did things? Maybe you lack a LOT of perspective and understanding. Maybe you're looking at it in a negative way. I don't know!

We were never promised a perfect world. I can guarantee you this: God gave us the choice to choose him, he doesn't force us - but if we DO choose him, eternal life in His all-loving presence infinitely dwarfs the suffering of this temporary world. I'm paraphrasing, but the Bible speaks of the time when God will wipe away every tear from our eyes. We will be renewed. In heaven, whatever it may truly be, we won't even begin to care about our trials during life - it means nothing in comparison.

For this reason, I don't shake my fist at God for my imperfect life, even when # hits the fan real bad, because I know that giving him my heart brings true happiness, both now in the present and for eternity.

a reply to: peppycat

No man in and of himself is acceptable to God.

True Believers in Christ (only God knows) are accepted because of Christ work on the cross.

Christ cannot be removed from a true believers heart nor the Holy Ghost as it is a token of salvation and will remain until the Day the Physical body is finally redeemed and renewed in Christ.

a reply to: Willingly

What you're doing is, IMO, trying to apply logic to a situation where logic need not tread.

The short answer that some will give is because their religion says to.

Others may claim that it is a way of showing love and respect to their god.

Others might say that it is a constant reminder to be humble--that we are not in control.

Even others may say that it is how they can speak directly to their god, either physically or metaphorically.

Some use it as a form of meditation.

But then there are those like me--I believe that religion was created by man as a way to maintain control over society and to, for lack of a better phrase, lead through fear. Bowing is a form of subservience, and praying keeps people asking for things and thanking a god for things that, for all intents and purposes, would have happened whether that person believed in a god or not. But it's a way to keep people in line and reminding them that they are not in charge, and if they step out of line, there are also negative things that could happen.

I don't mean to offend, but that's just how I see it. Of course, that's how I think that it started out. In modern times I just think it's tradition, and the average person, at least in America, who does these things does them without much true thought or concern.

But there are those few, like my mom, who take this stuff very seriously. I just don't understand it.

*Note: I wrote this without reading any other comments, so hopefully I didn't just reiterate what others are saying.

a reply to: Klassified

I have no idea why you wellcome me back. I've never been here before. Anyway...

I re-phrase my question:

IF there is a God, what for and why would that God want to be worshipped, bowed to, prayed to, IF that God is allmighty, allknowing, all powerfull, loving, caring, etc.? Wouldn't that be unneccessary, given all those attributes are what God is all about?

Imagine: That God you worship comes here and tells you, "please don't worship me. That's not neccessary. Just be nice and helpfull to your fellow human beings, if they deserve it. That's it. I just hang around here to tell you you don't have to bow to me or worship me. I rather bow to you, my dear devotee."

Wouldn't that be a much more logical and reasonable relationship between some God and its devotee?

a reply to: Willingly



I can't breath oh wait let me catch my breath.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

"I live without breathing." (Atma Darshan by Sri Atmananda/Sri Krishna Menon)

a reply to: ChesterJohn I've come to realize that many Christians, myself included, start to almost or completely forget the Lord when things are going really well and can even start to doubt the Lord when things aren't going well. I have realized that when many Christians, myself included are at there worst, remember God and start praying.
I never stated that anyone is acceptable to God and was questioning what the post asking why do people try to get accepted by God means. I figured that when one has the promised salvation, they will be accepted into heaven.
I've never heard of anyone praying for acceptance but I have certainly prayed for God to Keep Jesus in my heart when I feel I am going astray and I have prayed for those that are dying that they be accepted into the kingdom of heaven.
Not sure why your are saying that I wrote that people are acceptable to God and I certainly understand that no one is even worthy, but if any acceptance is applied to prayer or the Lord, it has to do with entering the kingdom of heaven.
I have even talked to fellow Christians that even though they believe Christ died and was resurrected and is the only way to God, still don't know if they have salvation and are fine with what ever God chooses.
I think it boils down to the fact that each relationship with Jesus Christ is different.

Thanksgiving For The Life You Have Received... And For The Created World In Which You Live.
God Will Hear You...

Give Thanks...
If You Are Humble... Then You May Bow.

It Is A Custom To Bow And Give Thanks For Everything You Have... Life Itself Is Included.

a reply to: Pinocchio


What about my suffering fellow mammals, who don't live as comfortable as I do? Should I give thanks and praises for the suffering and pain they experience too?

I pretty much don't think so!