Man tests new transgender protections by undressing in women's locker room- WA st.

Sorry if this has been a topic already, I did not see it.

I know this is a highly controversial topic, and I've debated posting this because im really terrible at posting things, but I think people should be aware of the law change in WA state, regardless of what side you're on. Whether you agree with it or not, its law now.

I did a search because I was curious when it went into effect, and apparently it was December 26, 2015 according to this article.
Washington quietly adopts new transgender bathroom, locker room policies

The man, according to the article, does not identify as a woman or transgender, but was testing the new law.

Some quotes from the article- People asked about it were on both sides.

news link

When a woman told the staff about him, he proclaimed: “The law has changed and I have a right to be here.”

Others protested Monday in Olympia, claiming the new law has too many loopholes that could allow predators into locker rooms.

“I would not feel safe in a locker room showering next to an anatomically male person,” said one woman at Monday’s protest

However, people KIRO 7 spoke with outside of the pool did not seem concerned about allowing transgender people into locker rooms.

“We need to be open to it,” said one woman who comes to the rec center for yoga. “People need to be able to identify however they feel, and I support that.”

What do you think? Any WA staters with thoughts?

This is dangerous if the law is that lenient. True, honest to goodness trans people that feel the need to change in X or Y area... Fine by me to be honest.

But if the law's leniency can be abused by say, teenage boys who wanna see some female anatomy and not be punished, legislators need to figure something out so a loophole cannot be taken advantage of.

Not a Washingtonian, but I have an opinion.
Sexual assaults will happen regardless of this law. Is it a little silly? Yeah. Will it be exploited? Yeah. But all laws are exploited. If we could all be a little more grown up and just have stalls, there would be no need for separate male and female restrooms.
If a biologically born man or woman goes into the locker room of the opposite gender and are being sincere about wanting to change genders, they should have a modicum of respect for their future gender and try not to make them uncomfortable.
But the world is filled with asshats...so some guy (and yes, I'm a guy, we tend to be more impulsive and inclined toward this sort of thing) from time to time will be an ass about it.

I just wonder how the schools will handle it with all of the raging hormones of the pubescent and post pubescent. 🤔

Im sure they'll get the law worded right quickly...or the state will face multiple charges in federal circuit court.

So, when a penis-having teenager starts going into the girls lockerroom, he can't be punished?

Not even ridiculed, as it would be custom under teenagers whenever one of them is supposingly "too femaleish"? Because that would be discrimination?

What a wonderful world..

Yes, I am a father of girls. BIOLOGICAL girls, and I would unleash a tsunami of thunder and anger upon school, teacher and pupil (if I would find him) if this happened to them!

a reply to: C84K2

I think they could make this really simple. Washington has all of the legal pathways to legally change your gender under legal definitions.

For restrooms, it's easy. Just let people go to the bathroom. Nobody is naked so unless some lady is being a pervert peeping tom, nobody will ever know what the girl in the next stall has going on between her legs.

But in shower rooms? I imagine most situations where there is a shower, there is a membership or registration to be there. Their license will say what their gender is. Go according to the license, trans or not.

Nobody is so desperate for a public shower that they can't wait for their proper paperwork. However, everybody has to pee. I think when politics combine the two as if they were one issue, it doesn't make any sense.

If the state is going to legally recognize transgender equality then they must accommodate the consequential infrastructure and introduce a 4th bathroom/changeroom/restroom - currently the state has male, female and disabled facilities so it stands to reason that they also accommodate for transgender.

It would be unacceptable for the majority of citizens to simply and suddenly have to give up their rights for privacy and not feel intimidated because a minority wants equal treatment - the state should introduce recognized gender infrastructure for this demographic if they have introduced other legally recognized protections for them.

If you have the vagine, use the women's toilettes.

If you have the kuraц, use the men's toilettes.

I have never ever met a transgender person, so I have no damn idea, but this one time in Kazakhstan, my friend was in the women's banya, and there was this women there, she didn't have the kuraц but she had a beard... nobody cared. But if she had the kuraц, she, or he whatever, would have been tossed away outside, like that.

I mean, if you have a male body I don't think it matters if you have a female brain, you should use the men's, because you must think of the women, who will not like a kuraц in their toilette. Because of course, there is some men who might use a pervy advantage here. Precautions are sometimes needed.

And seperate trans toilettes... well this is nice idea, but is also of great cost for not many trans people. Damn, this is a difficult problem!

The fourth bathroom idea will not work, quite simply because MtF transgender activists (and it is always MtF - FtM tend to keep their heads down and try not to bother anyone) refuse to accept them as a viable solution as it 'invalidates their identities as real women'. Simply put, they 'feel' like real women, so they 'are' real women, and biological women have to accept their 'female' penises in their safe spaces otherwise we are bigots.

Don't even get me started on what they're doing to harass lesbians. Anyone heard of the cotton ceiling?

It's not that I don't support peoples right to self expression, but I find it troubling - and frustrating - at how quickly our (generally male) lawmakers are quick to throw away the hard won rights to female only safe spaces. Rape counselling services, refuges, changing areas, showering facilities, lesbian groups...they're all meaningless if anyone with a penis can claim access on the basis of 'feeling like a woman'.

Transphobia is a very real thing. And a lot of trans people are getting killed for being trans. So this is a real problem and requires a real solution to address it. Because people are dying.

There's this interesting narrative from the radical-feminists that evil trans people are bullying and harassing them, just because the Rad-Fems say trans people have no right to exist and should be erased and aren't 'real', etc, etc.

Astonishingly, trans folks are pretty unhappy and upset about that.


"and it is always MtF - FtM tend to keep their heads down and try not to bother anyone"


Absolute nonsense. There are just as many FtM trans folks who are actively campaigning as the other way around.



The bathroom/shower thing is a storm in a teacup. One transphobic moron decided to create a scene because he feels like the law is wrong. He's an outlier. If teenaged boys try and use a woman's shower, they'll be asked to leave, and they'll almost certainly leave. If they decide to hang around and be creepers, the police will be called and they'll escort them out for being creepers.

Nobodys freedoms are being infringed here. Safe spaces are still safe spaces.

I feel society could really benefit by moving away from our concepts of gender. If we stop caring about what gender a person is or which room they use this argument can become invalid. If you stop acting like seeing someone naked is traumatizing and somehow detrimental we might actually move past the need to worry about these things.

I know the story is about a locker room, but it is a public one. If you're uncomfortable with people undressing near you please do not use public facilities. I used a co-gendered bathroom in an Oregon coffee house years ago and I survived it.

When you truly stop judging people on gender or sex or other classifications things like this just don't matter anymore. I realize the law in Washington isn't actually accomplishing this though.

I would have armed guard citizens guarding the cans so the girls don't get molested, PERIOD!

And all the politicians would be scrambling to avoid life long prison and burning their documents like the NAZI's because their signatures on illegal, unjust and criminal laws are confessions of guilt!

So the world should shove lies down children's throats, and pretend to be genderless? No thank you!

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
If the state is going to legally recognize transgender equality then they must accommodate the consequential infrastructure and introduce a 4th bathroom/changeroom/restroom - currently the state has male, female and disabled facilities so it stands to reason that they also accommodate for transgender.

It would be unacceptable for the majority of citizens to simply and suddenly have to give up their rights for privacy and not feel intimidated because a minority wants equal treatment - the state should introduce recognized gender infrastructure for this demographic if they have introduced other legally recognized protections for them.

I think that this was all covered in an episode of 'South Park'.

Getting tired of the stalls in the boys' room being occupied, Eric Cartman puts a bow on his hat and claims to be transgender in order to use the girls' toilets at school.
Principal Victoria is unimpressed, but Mr. Garrison advises her to give in to avoid the scandal Cartman is almost certain to cause. The girls however are disgusted at Cartman's presence in their toilets, so the school compromises by installing a very fancy transgender toilet in the janitor's room.
Wendy uses Cartman's private bathroom by claiming to be transgender herself, using the name "Wendyl". Cartman is furious at losing his private room. After angrily confronting Principal Victoria, Cartman takes his anger out on Wendy's boyfriend Stan by saying dating her/him makes him gay. Stan, now confused, attempts to discuss gender identity with his father, but Randy misunderstands and instead reveals to Stan that he is Lorde. He explains that he started using the women's bathroom at work out of convenience, pretending to be a woman, but eventually found the bathroom to be conducive to creating music. He even shows Stan how he uses home studio software to make himself sound like a girl on a song called "Feeling Good on a Wednesday". This leaves Stan even more confused. At the Geological Survey, Randy/Lorde's boss proposes a separate bathroom to appease the other women at the office; however, Randy/Lorde says the bathroom is critical for his/her musical creations. E! News reports that Lorde is abandoning music and Spin will reveal the singer's secret.
Cartman teases Stan about his gender confusion issues, coining the insult "cissy", based on the term "cisgender". Sharon comforts Randy and indirectly encourages him to continue to express himself as Lorde. Randy completes another, more personal song with lyrics that include "just push, push" and "help me unload the car". Enjoying the music, the female geologists decide to accept Randy's transgenderism, and Brandon Carlile (the Spin magazine reporter) deletes his exposé on Lorde. The school decides to get rid of the transgender bathroom and allow anyone to use the bathroom with which they are most comfortable, thus foiling Cartman's plans.
For those who are bothered by transgender people, a new designation is made to keep them away from the normal people who do not care: cissy bathrooms. Forced by Butters to use that bathroom, Stan begins to appreciate it and sings a song similar to Lorde's.

Wikipedia

a reply to: C84K2

I think the whole Transgender thing is kind of weird, but this is America so i guess your free to do what you want. I think the whole locker room thing is too far to be honest.

Don't your rights end when they infringe on others? so if He is making the girls unconformable then he should not be in there. If he started with a penis then you go in the penis room even if you chopped it off. Far as i am concerned what ever you started with is what you are and all your cells will reflect that.

America the only place where pretending to be something you are not is gloried.

a reply to: CosmicSmack

Do you think the girls would feel uncomfortable with this guy in their restroom or locker room?




(pssst - he was born with a vagina, so according to your logic, he should be forced to use the women's room even if he didn't want to)

a reply to: CosmicSmack

but this is America so i guess your free to do what you want.

Tell that to everyone that is or has been incarcerated for various rather sundry offenses.
You can't do a lot of things, even though it affects no one else.

Smoking cannibis is illegal in most states.

We are not free.

Is there a "puzzled" emoticon I can use?

I'm from Scotland, and my local swimming pools ALL have unisex changing areas. (With both sexes together)
The changing areas have lots of individual cubicles/stalls of various sizes with doors on them for privacy.
They have "single" cubicles and they have "family" cubicles, so parents can dress themselves and their kids in private.

There are separate Male / Female / Disabled Toilets available adjacent to the changing areas.
There is a communal shower (by the poolside - so no nudity there), but there are also private Shower rooms which you can enter on your own and lock whilst you are in there.

The Pool staff, both Male and Female are always close to hand, but I've NEVER seen them having to deal with any trouble in the changing areas.

Transgender people would use the facilities exactly the same as everyone else - no law change required.

Am I missing something?

G

It depends on whether you're going as what you feel like or as what you are. I suppose the undecided should get their own facility.

a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

Am I missing something?

No.
The system that you describe actually makes sense.

That must be the problem... it makes sense.... we will have none of that here.

a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

Am I missing something?

Not everyone lives in your local town.