New Testament original texts, where are they?

a reply to: MurgatroidAnd again, nothing before roughly 300 AD. The oldest is the codex Sainiticus in greek. The next oldest is called I believe codex Vaticanus and is in Latin.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: areyousirius360

Don't you find it curious that Jesus, himself, wrote down nothing. As a matter of fact, someone that supposedly wrote some of his words down while they were telling his story, said that Jesus said to beware of the scribes and Pharisees (publishers and lawyers).

God's word is written in your heart. You just need to have "eyes to see and ears to hear" to access it.

Well to be fair to the text he was speaking of their hypocrisy not their theology.

Mark 12:38-40
38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
39And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
40Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

a reply to: DISRAELI
I don't mean to be rude, but a long hefty rant using words like arbitrary and artificial is not going to impress anyone. Anyone can throw around words. I am using plain, simple logic. Maybe I am not as enlightened as you and you actually know where the originals are. Stop trying to be a debunker or apologist and use that intelligence of yours for more than getting mad and making false allegations.

a reply to: [post=20312508]queenofswords[/post He would have at least had scribes. But I agree the bible speaks highly of the Holy Spirit, very highly. So I rely heavily on the Holy Spirit.

a reply to: areyousirius360

I'd say its probably a test to prove that by human nature, man kind as a whole has no regard for preserving the truth. But out of God's grace, I do believe the truth is 100% preserved within the various manuscripts and fragments that still exist today.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriestI respect that. I'm full of doubt. I believe that it's 100% ok to doubt if you have good reason. This life is serious. Death is permanent. God is in the scriptures, but the scriptures are not God and produced by imperfect hands. Tests of faith like you suggest sound to me like what the Mormons suggest for the absence of the plates of Nephi or or whatever they call the actual gold plates that have never been seen. I think it's acceptable to worship the Most High, who has blessed the world with the Holy Spirit. I have faith in that. I'm not bothered by doubt, it comes from a need to understand things. And observation of human behavior of today, and what I can gather from the past with the information we have.

a reply to: areyousirius360

Doubt is never bad, as long as you ask God honest questions, and honestly seek the answers.

If it helps, most of the Hebrew OT and Greek NT is metered. By that, I mean that most passages can be broken down into paragraph which have a total syllable count which is divisible by 7. When you find a pattern, and it suddenly breaks, its an indivation that text may have been added. Such is the case in the Parable of the 10 Virgins.

But confirming this will require that you learn to read OT Hebrew and Koine Greek. Counting the syllables is time consuming.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: areyousirius360
That aside we had the capability to preserve it, didn't, and I would like to know, why?

Because they did NOT have the capacity to preserve papyrus documents indefinitely. That's why people made copies.

What you are doing is making an arbitrary and artificial definition of what OUGHT to happen, in the hope of proving God false because nobody chooses to live up to the definition you have created. A very common technique on these boards.
It's a way of scoring cheap and meaningless debating points, but it has no other value.

There is some truth to this statement. In the mind of the unbeliever, there is simply no Jewish or Christian god to have preserved the original documents. Therefore, it seems logical to ask such questions, and propose such riddles to ferret out the holes faith in said documents open up. In the mind of the believer of course, it's a different perspective altogether...
Isaiah 55

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriestI want to know about Aramaic texts. That's what atleadt some ofthe originals would have been written in. It was rare for a Jew to write in Greek then.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriestOriginal God preserved documents. From the very hand that wrote them. If that is too much to ask for from the creator of the universe then one must question the foundation of today's Christian churches. If it can't be proven then why should anyone believe it without asking important questions. Why treat it as a fact if it can't even be verified by our methods of determining history. It's relegated to myth without proof.

originally posted by: areyousirius360
Where are the originals.

The Lord Jesus Christ literally IS the original...

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" ~ John 1:1

This is why He said: ‘I AM the truth’...

"Truth is not a teaching, truth is a person." ~ Jan Sjoerd Pasterkamp

“I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I AM!” ~ John 8:58

The below video clip connects many of the dots on this subject as well...

The same divine titles given to Yahweh in the OT are applied to Jesus in the NT. "I AM" is one divine title which God uses in the OT. The Jewish prophets all tell us that Messiah/Christ is eternal, not a created being. Jesus is eternal. God said in the OT that He would descend down from heaven and dwell among His people. "For behold, the Lord is coming out of His place; He will come down from heaven and tread on the high places of the earth" Micah 1:3 "The word(Jesus)became flesh and dwelt among us" John 1:14 God clothed Himself in human flesh in the person of Christ. "God is light; and in Him there is no darkness at all" 1 John 1:5 "I am the light of the world" Jesus in John 8:12

"I tell you the truth" before Abraham was born I AM. John 8:58. Through out the gospel of John we clearly see that Jesus used this title ---- I AM. ----------- At the beginning of his many statements. --WHY? Right after Jesus stated this, the Jews picked up stones to throw at him.-- Why? The Jews answered him, "We are not going to stone you for a good work but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, are making yourself God!" John 10:33 Here, from Jesus's own WORDS we see that JESUS, was claiming to be God. Jesus spoke these same words - I AM,- in the old Testament and used the same words - I AM, - in the new testament. Jesus was telling the Jews that this was his name, then, now, and for ever. The Jews clearly understood that Jesus was claming to be God, the same person at Mount Sinai, when he said to Moses I AM that I AM.

JESUS, WHO IS GOD, said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM,'' this is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" That is why I told you that you will die in your sins, for unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." John 8:24

a reply to: DISRAELI
They absolutely had the capacity to preserve them even IF they were made on papyrus. Older Egyptian papyrus still exist today. Also the Dead Sea Scrolls are older than the new testament, and they survived.

a reply to: MurgatroidThat doesn't answer the question at all. I am talking about paper you are talking about the saviour. Listing quotes from today's bible doesn't prove anything either.

a reply to: MurgatroidThat kind of answer is deliberate avoidance of the question.

a reply to: areyousirius360

On the contrary...

It answers the question perfectly.



A person cannot see that which he knows doesn't exist...

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
God doesn't lie either - but he veils the truth from those who consider themselves wise in their own eyes. Finding the truth is a matter of humility and the acceptance of our need for grace (nobody can be counted pure in the eyes of God... Perseverance in seeking the person of God is the key. If we knock, the door will be opened. After that, it's just a matter of time until he 'leads us into all truth' by the power of His Spirit.

originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: BELIEVERpriestI want to know about Aramaic texts. That's what atleadt some ofthe originals would have been written in. It was rare for a Jew to write in Greek then.

I dont think the Aramaic texts are metered. Anyways, by the NT times, the Jews read the OT in the form of the LXX, which was written in Koine Greek, and it was the lingua franca of the area at the time so if the writers were concerned about spreading the gospel, they would have written it in Greek.

a reply to: MurgatroidThat's speculation. Mere words. It doesn't help figure out what happened to the very first edition of the Word for God and account of his time on earth. We have records of thousands of years worth of kings from all over. But not one mention of God in the flesh from the actual time it happened? You just want to throw logic away and believe what was prepared for you before you were born to mold your thoughts and not ever stop and ask, how do I know this is true?

originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: BELIEVERpriestOriginal God preserved documents. From the very hand that wrote them. If that is too much to ask for from the creator of the universe then one must question the foundation of today's Christian churches. If it can't be proven then why should anyone believe it without asking important questions. Why treat it as a fact if it can't even be verified by our methods of determining history. It's relegated to myth without proof.

For all we know, the Vatican is hiding the original documents, because they don't want us to know it's metered. The syllable metering anchors the prophecies ti history.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriestI don't know if your right about that if Jesus spoke Aramaic it would suggest that they were not reading in Greek. I don't think they had even tanslated past the first five books yet.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriestI don't what metered means clue me in. I could believe it if I knew what metered meant.