Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: Serdgiam

Sorry to hear about your broken bones, that's pretty bad.

Has anyone in this thread overlaid a graphic of the EM spectrum onto the tree of life? Been wondering how it might look, or if it would make something click.

I'll help you if I can (she said, pretending to know how to overlay anything). First off, is this the EM spectrum?

a reply to: beansidhe

There remain basic issues for me, the association of the Damu/Delphinus/swine relating to the sap that rises up the tree and the Indus valley association at the boar with regards to blockage of probably that same sap, i think if the plunbing is sorted out then yes the sap does rise all the way to Canis Major, but first deal with the blockage probably at Taurus, were the dead go in but they don't come out.

Accordingly the hunter in Mesopotamian tradition i would identify as Pabilsag, Damu is actually his son, it is also the case that his wife is Ninisina who i have suggested represented Canis Major, so it could be the case that the dog seen to sit at her feet at Canis Major had a more active role also in the region of Delphinus, the activities there translate to the summit.

At the base of the Milky Way we find Pabilsag, the Babylonian prototype of our Sagittarius, whose name means the ‘Fore-Father’ or ‘Chief Ancestor’.

His function within the stellar calendar was to drive discarnate souls from the environs of the earth up into the heavens. In this role he bears many similarities to the god of the wild hunt found in western folklore.

Concerning Pabilsag’s constellation two factors immediately stand out as highly significant. Firstly, his star rises in the ninth month of the year, which is the final month of the symbolic calendar imprinted upon the stars. This is the time of year that the sun descends to its lowest ebb at the winter solstice and the gates to the underworld are opened symbolising the transition between death and new life.

Secondly, Pabilsag is located directly within the course of the Milky Way where it abruptly rises from the southern regions close to the horizon into the higher reaches of the heavens. Judging by the otherconstellations found in this part of the sky, such as the Eagle and the Panther, this section of the Milky Way arguably represents the souls of the dead on their way to the afterlife.

The Eagle continues the same vein of symbolism; its mythic function is two-fold. In general terms, it acts as a guide to the dead, transporting the Dead Man to the underworld just as the Greek Harpies were sometimes thought to do.

So Aquila the eagle and Sagitta as extensions of the role of Pabilsag, as well as Canis Major his wife Ninisina was also related to the she-goat constellation Capella, relating to the herbal lore tradition as she was the healing Goddess

Babylonian star-lore reveals that his immediate family were also represented among the stars – his wife, the healing goddess commonly called Ninisina or Gula, has her celestial station in the She-Goat, and their son Damu, ‘the child’, who is annually reborn after midwinter is represented among the stars in the form of the Swine-star.

Pabilsag’s wife has the dog as her divine symbol, which may go some way to explain why he has a dog’s head springing from his shoulders.

Babylonian Sagittarius

The waterway that probably related in a symbolic form to these traditions was the Kir-sig, there is fragmentary text relating to the association of Ninisina and Pabilsag to this.

Nininsina ....... In the Kir-sig watercourse ...... their tails ...... Isin ....... Joyfully his son married a wife ......; joyfully lord Pabilsaj married Nininsina ....... She ...... him the digging implement for the Kir-sig watercourse. ...... their tails ...... Isin ...... for him.

Enlil stood beside the river and spoke to it. He stood beside the Kir-sig watercourse and ......: "River, may ...... your outlet be ...... for him. May you establish ...... the house here. ...... the most righteous ......, ...... great wild bull

Pabilsags journey to Nibru.

There's no suggestion in the Mesopotamian tradition that Pabilsag and Ninisina would have been understood as having to kill Damu in order for him to perform his function as a healing God, but you never know.

a reply to: UniFinity

It's a common enough term used by the mainstream;

a reply to: Serdgiam

I hardly know what to say. Here you are trying to slake your thirst and your body is not cooperating. I have deep feelings of concern.

That curiosity and "thirst" in Tantra is likened to something akin to a "divine sex drive". As I've stated various times, "we" think that "we" are behind this.. "we" are not.

We can either work with it, or work against it.

Humans have been trying to kill the "divine sexual dance" for some time.. through rape (the last 4000 to 6000 years of increasingly paternalistic ways).

I must say, that I'm very impressed with what bean and Kantz are doing.. it's not my way.. the ancient astrology, but what's exciting is that I suspect that both will come to the same place eventually..

the "tree" the "sap" -- it's all there.

I understand it partly in terms of "shamanistic kundalini" and some of it in terms of science.

It's all good. Very encouraging for multiple paths to wind up at the same place.

Kev

a reply to: johnb

For Kundalini to "work" properly, there are various physical body systems which need to support it.

Now I know that so many people want to deny that we are also physical beings.. and it's not "New Age Cool" that "divine mind" rests upon "earthy physical processes" AS WELL.

This subject is worth a large treatise..

But in short, part of what "Kundalini" does, is to re-align the body to more properly produce and maintain the critical levels of various "juices" .. apparently hormone and neuropeptide cocktails, which buffer, support and direct the flow.. though of all things.. as I said before.. muscles and other tissues are involved as well, as well as (apparently) ionization of the cerabral spinal fluid.

But in short, if a male..ummm... "discharges too much subtle essence" (not what they call it now days) or people of either gender do various things which are not helpful.. such as accumulating worry and stress in the stomach.. not keeping the production of "heart nectar" (probably oxytocin and who knows what else) pure and flowing..

then the entire support system collapses..

and then you have a VERY cranky "Kundalini" which can't be in proper balance..

The human personality has been addicted to "the divine light / power feelings" and tries to keep "flying with the angels", but can't, due to the infrastructure being in disarray.

Not knowing how to "fix things" as all of this was fallen into instinctively or by "accident" , the "devotee" (that's us) falls into a dark night of the soul and stays there, sometimes for life.. as they have started something they don't understand and can't support, as they are missing a large array of basic facts.

Does that help?

Kevin

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
I'm a little surprised nobody wanted to talk about "dark night of the soul" and my oblique reference to "Kundalini juice".

It's not an easy thing to put into words, sometimes. I spent years trying to figure out why some things died down after reaching the point of having that "energy" manifest in a visible way. I could still work with the smaller amounts of energy flowing through me but eventually gave up on the idea of ever figuring out exactly what I went through. I also backed off from most of it in general to work out my own emotional issues, among other things, and dealt with a lot of fallout from my earlier experiences.

In general I had a lot of crap to deal with that kundalini brought to light, and despite the negative aspects of it all I'm a better person from it, or at least I think so. My life essentially got put on hold from the age of 16 to 26 until I worked enough on myself to function somewhat normally again. It didn't help that I was an alcoholic through much of that time period, but eventually I was able to deal with that as well partially through meditation among other things. Now I'm 32 and still trying to figure everything out but I doubt that will ever end lol.

The idea that our "souls" are something we create, which then leaves us at the end of the process makes sense though based on my experiences. For some years now I've worked with the general idea that souls aren't the immortal essential parts of us that most people think they are, so your ideas aren't especially shocking to me.

I've thought for years now that souls are just a type of construct shaped by the mind, but that's based on experiences with lucid dreaming where I could hunt down troublesome critters that happened to be bothering me at the time. I have no idea what happens to a mind when it's soul dies but after awhile certain kinds of critters learned to not come after me or those close to me. Of course some of that could have been related to tulpas I created myself, among other things, but I don't know for certain either way.

The lack of kundalini juices never really bothered me by itself, although I've wondered if the residual energies I work with daily are related to it or come from some other source. There isn't much work for a modern shaman these days anyway that requires actual "power" that I've found necessary. Most issues I've come across are more psychological in nature, simply providing counseling in a sense or helping people learn to deal with their own internal issues enough to alleviate their own health problems.

Humans don't seem connected enough or "open" enough a lot of times to gain any benefits from more direct forms of healing, although I seem able to deal with my own minor health problems easily enough when something comes up. Plants and animals seem to benefit much more from that sort of work though, for whatever reason. It's unfortunate that we live in a world where, for example, a beloved pet may go without treatment due to financial concerns but I've learned that some things like parvo can be dealt with sometimes in a shamanic sense.

In a better world I think regular medical care could be combined with other forms of "spiritual" treatment but I think you may be right and we may never get the chance to seriously study these things in a scientific sense. I mean, it's obviously related to our nervous system, and feels something like electricity, so in my mind it must be similar to or related to em-spectrum energy forms. It shouldn't be that hard to figure it out, or at least infer the existence of "something" by how it affects other things in a similar way to how we know dark matter/energy exists. But perhaps I'm wrong.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Thanks yes it does help and realigning makes sense.
We make sure we build solid foundations under our buildings but often forget to make sure our own foundations are strong and balanced before we build on ourselves.
It is quite easy to use maths to ensure a stable building foundation but where do you go to ensure your own foundation is well balanced/ aligned?

a reply to: Rethaya

Nice post.

I see you understand some of what I've experienced and have come to some similar conclusions.

"Souls" ARE Tulpas. No more and no less.

We are tulpa building machines.

Most "normal people" build "soul tulpas".

Some abused people like I've said many times now build "weird psychic tulpas" instead.

Its that simple.

What does it feel like when a "soul dies"?

That's simple. That's what happened to me. It sucked...I nearly died.

I do believe that "the baby" was using that tulpa as a womb....it's what they do.

Just like how "space imps" possess tulpas to gain the EM power to do further mischief.

Kev

I missed a bit in my foray into the real world... but one thing that jumped right out is that "Pigs in Space" could be a set-up for a joke about a new (cheap) weapon against several Mideastern belief systems... hi y'all

a reply to: Bybyots

And By-By I wish I'd kept my clumsy fingers somewhere more constructive, like around a crack pipe, but I simply meant that sometimes, due to coincidence (or synchronicity), stray thoughts and gentle tentative nudging, it stuck me that something far away was trying to reach us here through methods that could be seen as somewhat "faint" rather than lightning striking and some mile high image appearing to lay down the law...

when I read PKD his notion of a "real" creator blocked by the demiurge sorta fit ... so nothing deep or coy, just musings from the area firmly on this batpoop side of fringe.

a reply to: jacygirl

Thinking back, I was more grounded when doing the "hot hands" as it was something I could do for others, but not so much myself, but there were more weird things than usual (eta but I wasn't formally meditating or doing any formal energy work, just using something that felt natural) , and then all poo hit all fans and I was miserable for a spell, but that could just be the usual up and down graph of life... no kundi- sourced dark knights needed... or not.

a reply to: beansidhe

That's the one! Well, the squiggly line at least

I even have some cuts of it, with transparent background. Buuut, couldnt figure out how to save it! If I have learned anything from this, its that trying to manipulate photos on mobile is an annoying effort.. Adobe, especially, seems to be slacking.

If it really comes down to it, I can reinstall cs5 on my PC, but I'm not sure I care that much. I'd have to free up some HDD space, so.. meh.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBearKundalini is at the root of both Religion and mysticism.. And reforming those two subjects would be awesome.

I agree with that as well, I just got sidetracked with that last long post of mine and didn't mention it there.

It's one thing that bugs me the most about all this. I think language is half the problem. We've got the adherents of so many different "paths" using different labels to describe the same thing, and most are unable or unwilling to look outside their own boxes of thought to address the similarity.

For example, I get along well with Mormons because they have no trouble discussing a lot of weird phenomena compared to some other religious groups. But the idea of a holy spirit lies at the heart of much of what they experience and despite the obvious similarities to kundalini they only view things from a certain perspective. The core concepts of kundalini fit well into the life of the church's founder and they'll admit that others can experience similar things even, but even so they're stuck with the language and thinking they adopted almost two centuries ago.

I'm sure you know more about that sort of thing than I do, but similarities are everywhere. I sometimes wonder why Black Elk didn't go the way of Joseph Smith and others, but I suppose cultural differences account for that and I'm not especially knowledgeable when it comes to Native American thought.

I do think serious study of these things could lead to the reformation of many ideas, and perhaps it will at some point. Humans are stubborn though, and enjoy being special in their own groups of like-minded individuals so I don't know if things will ever change.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

And that almost solidifies a "critique'" of your views that I've had... worried that your ptsd of a crappy Earth experience made your outlook less rosy than the average bear (or pie-eyed new ager)... and that is:

IF the "soul" is a tulpa... then so what? It's still a construct of the many facets we call "you" and still energy and "immortal" so what's the use of making the distinction and deflating the folks hoping not to wink out?

The construct will still be around with the name applied "Kev" ... or am I missing something (probably)?

a reply to: Rethaya

Insightful.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

I think you're right, and I'm almost certain that Ursa Major is the boar for the Celts, but not for your seal. They've got the Hunter as Sagittarius, not Orion.

Sagittarius famously points its arrow at the heart of Scorpius, represented by the reddish star Antares, as the two constellations race around the sky. Following the direct line formed by Delta Sagittarii (δ Sgr) and Gamma Sagittarii (γ Sgr) leads nearly directly to Antares.

It could then be that your boar is Scorpio, or it could be not that.
Still reading, there is a ton of stuff.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Aah, ok, I'll have a look for a better image. I wanted to ask you some stuff about EM anyway. How would fairies translate in EM terminology?

a reply to: Baddogma

Souls are "shades" and as you yourself have said...shades fade out.

Now I'm fully aware of your ptsd concern. That's completely valid.

And in fact I've been healing up from "my death" slowly and painfully...and I've seen as you say, that that experience DID overly negatively color my observations..

(By the way....YOU try dying and become walking dead...at least for a while--and tell me that your attitude wouldn't take a negative hit).

Now if people want to believe twaddle...more power to them....But then you lose the right to be taken seriously...As "mysticism" is really the study of seeking death and rebirth.

If you want the rebirth you gotta die first.

Now I seem to be growing a new "soul"...it seems there is no way to avoid it.

"Souls" are also interfaces...nothing wrong with having one of those...but I'm going to keep it mostly twaddle free.

Much to say...but must run.

Kev

a reply to: Rethaya

Liminal refers to the "in-between" areas, the thresholds on a doorway neither inside or outside, the wavering between two belief systems (and none), the non determinate areas before concrete concepts form... the Shamanic use is basically that, but it holds other shades of meaning that a real shaman might address better... but the above is how I use it.