Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: Baddogma

Boltzmann brains - my thoughts exactly and thanks again for this thread.

P.S. thats the 1st time i've ever bothered separating my replies to people - I usually reply to the thread or sometimes a single poster but then spew out questions to everyone else too.
Am also trying to get my 'spiritual' muscles working - isn't trying to just observe thoughts drift by without grabbing them fun

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

well you are entitled to any opinion. but I think people were always smart, just like we are today, and to think all except 3% spirituality which evolved from shamanistic days is false is something which I personally cannot imagine. Sorry.

True, at modern times people have corrupted nearly all systems of Self development, but it was not always like this and also the purity has stayed to some degree even till today in a lot of forms, like In the books, songs and teachings from real saints in any religion in my opinion. Not to mention still present hermits and their students in "hiding". : )

These saints were not deluded, at least some have achieved what they were searching. And that showed in their action, speech and mind... Another trinity : )

For instance, in my opinion the last true saint "in public" for me is Ramana Maharshi. And to think he was deluded in any way is something which I cannot imagine. At least not from what he teached and what he did for all the people and animals. He was truly amazing, humble saint, with full perception into the relative AND absolute sides of nature of reality.

imho.

a reply to: UniFinity

Being a nice guy who tells people what they want to hear does not necessarily make one a saint.

But I mean no disrespect towards any persons you feel inspired by.

I know that it's tough to give up certainty...and to embrace the real.

I can count on one hand the number of people I've ever met (we have not met) who have even started upon a spiritual path.

Kev

a reply to: Baddogma

I'm finding myself suddenly involved with another group of people which I did not even know existed.

My posting may be a little less frequent.

But that doesn't mean that I cherish any of you (that I cherish that is) any less.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

it's cool, don't worry. No disrespect.

I know that it's tough to give up certainty...and to embrace the real.

Well this is one of the things he also thought about in my opinion. His Self inquiry technique is like that. It drops off all religious or spiritual BS and just simply takes you to direct experiance. And a lot of people were not happy about his ways at first, he was TO simple for them and he was entirely self learned and without any religious background and he never learned from other masters, so he had a really tough crowd I imagine : )

And he liked to teach the most in silence and not much with words, so to say that he just said nice thing is a bit silly : ) Also he could apparently talk with animals, or at least they showed a lot of intelligence when he was around. And many other apparent signs of a true saint but all from witness accounts. he never claimed he was anything special or made any claims for a miricle or siddhis. Although many "unexplained" things happen around him...and never earned a dime or had any possessions.

Well in any case after reading and study of his life and teachings I liked him and still do. And for me he is brilliant in every way. Like a shining beacon of truth in all the other mess when it comes to spirituality and fake self proclaimed saints.

a reply to: UniFinity

I hope that you find what you are looking for, by any means which you find useful and appropriate.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

thanks, yes, that makes two of us. And the same goes right back at ya' and also I wish you never stop learning new things : )

I think that everything develops. And just like the oldest "religion" may even be Shamanism at the present. There were also other pure philosophies and teachings that are still true and useful, all over the globe after the fall of Shamans. And even like Shamanism developed from other maybe even purer forms into something else that you know today, also did other religions used Shamanism as a jumping stone to something new in my opinion and so on and so on till today when we end up with Christianity. That is evolution and newer versions are not all false in my opinion. There were even true saints in Christianity, from what I can google about them. It is not about our intelligence, knowledge, method, but total surrender in some form, in this case with a prayer...from what it seems.

Well if one is focused purely on the teachings not of religions and what is popular in mainstream but ONLY on what the true saints teach modern and the past. One will soon find out that they talk about the very same "thing". But just from the prospective of their religions. But they all come the the ALL is ONE experiance and union of true "Self" knowledge and experiance which becomes science and wisdom for such people, in my opinion.

Also of course, correct detachment is the main part. Of all concepts and desires and even experiences. There is no control and no one to control.

imho.

a reply to: Baddogma

...hey it feels nice to be hugged over ATS for the first time, hugs "received" : )

hmmm well, the ones who are not deserving of love are in need of it the most. It is hard to accept that but it is the truth. And the same goes even with us and our addictions.

here is an interesting short video about this.



Seems like all we need is to discover love within and learn to do and share that? And when we will learn anything like that, we will all be naturally gentle and without addictions.

oh .. Rumi also says:
Love is all there is. All good and bad. Light and shadow.
: )

a reply to: UniFinity

I'm not aware that there has ever been a true saint. The entire concept doesn't work, once you know how things work even a little bit.

I can't be chasing after something which doesn't exist.. that's why there is such a fundamental disagreement between us; which is fine..

We can certainly agree to have nothing in common between us philosophically and still be friends.

Kev

a reply to: Baddogma

Well, there's been an interesting development; one of the Kundalini organizations that I used to talk with years ago, has lept up and decided to join a coalition of organizations which are seeking to scientifically research just what Kundalini is, and how to activate it; and to share that information publicly. Now on the surface that sounds purely wonderful.

However I quickly learned that one of their primary goals is to forcefully awaken Kundalini in children.

Of course if you give what I say even a tiny credence, this is like teaching children to drink rat poison, while peeing into a light socket whilst sitting on a pile of angry scorpions naked. Well actually far worse than that.

So to say that I'm disgusted (that they know that little about Kundalini) and that I'm horrified is an understatement.

When I was little, and for many years, my fondest dream was to make friends in a spiritual group, and we'd do wonderful things together.

But it feels like I always have to be the one to pull people out of the fire; I do not like being pushed into this role; I'd pay dearly to not be in this role.. but damn it all, it seems that if I have morals at all (which I do) I have no choice, but to put my big boy underoos on again and do what I have to do.

How disgusting. I want to play with my puppies and chase around my young and beautiful wife. And BS a little with friends on ATS.

Kev

a reply to: UniFinity

Christianity pretty much stole everything from the older religions and repackaged it to make it more bearable to the masses. Take St Bridget, very famous in Scotland and Ireland. She is none other than our beautiful Bridie, the summer face of the Cailleach. She has her own cross, and I'm pretty sure we could track her back to Cygnus, the Northern Cross constellation which marks the summer in the Northern hemisphere.



But anyway, I don't mean to stomp all over your ideas about saints, maybe I'm just too cynical. In terms of shamanism being the oldest religion, I think you're probably right. It could easily have come to us from the Neanderthals, maybe it was handed down to them by their ancestors too? I sincerely believe that we would be amazed to find out the true age of some of our stories and rituals, I think they are truly ancient.

On a side note, I agree with you about love. I've worked with children who have experienced trauma for well over a decade and by far the most damaging thing that can happen to a child is to be denied love. When love is withheld, it is devastating for little children and needless to say stays with them for the rest of their lives. Lack of love distorts and contorts us, painfully.
Any system which promotes unconditional love is ok in my book.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

However I quickly learned that one of their primary goals is to forcefully awaken Kundalini in children.

That doesn't sound too good? Surely you would have to understand the practice to make an informed decision about whether you wanted it 'awakened' or not?
Thwart those fiends, we'll all be right behind you.

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

However I quickly learned that one of their primary goals is to forcefully awaken Kundalini in children.

That doesn't sound too good? Surely you would have to understand the practice to make an informed decision about whether you wanted it 'awakened' or not?
Thwart those fiends, we'll all be right behind you.

I don't understand your response.

Kev

a reply to: beansidhe

It would seem that much of mythology is the etymology of incorrect interpretations of once simple and possibly useful observations and stories...mostly about nature.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I write 'you' when I should probably write 'one' but I'm just not posh enough.

It seems unethical to do this with children, given everything you've told us about it, because it should be a choice for children whether or not they want to 'awaken' anything. In order to make that choice, the children would have to understand the implications of doing so, so that their decision was an informed one.

The fiends to be thwarted are the ones who want to forcefully awaken Kundalini in children. It seems like if you want to speak out against this, it might be difficult, if they are a large group. But we (in this thread) would support you if you wanted to do that (whether or not that would be of any help to you, I have no idea ).

a reply to: beansidhe

Ok.

Well the best way to steer a boat may be to act as a rudder. But the organization is plum full of "Directors" with books, web sites and "reputations" who seem to know little or nothing.

On the other hand if they are going to distribute toxic sludge that will harm people, then maybe I should write a book and give it away for free to counteract that as best I can.

As far as children...most adults are like children when given promises about "easy enlightenment" and such drek.

But At least it may force my hand for me.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Yes!
It maybe is the universe poking you with a stick to write your book. It's very strange timing if not.

It would seem that much of mythology is the etymology of incorrect interpretations of once simple and possibly useful observations and stories...mostly about nature.

Kind of looks that way to me too.

a reply to: beansidhe

Well I feel poked.

I've been posting for the past day "in the lions den" with all "guns blazing", but nicely and respectfully (sort of). I suppose I'll either get banned, or ignored (like put into "chat" say), and then I'll have to come to a decision about writing.

Kev

a reply to: beansidhe

So how do you feel?

Now that you have uncovered huge parts about the "secret of mythology" and see it in all it's naked, and somewhat disturbing glory? Is some of the magic gone?

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Oh no, no! I love naked.

If anything it is more beautiful now to me because it has meaning. I look at the same stars as my great, great, great etc grandmothers two thousand years ago and now I understand what they were talking about. Now I get it, and it is incredibly inspiring and exciting. My ancestors seem closer somehow, I just love it.

I can only guess how Kantz feels, her stories are at least twice as old as mine.