The One Thing About 'Climate Change' That's Always Bothered Me...

a reply to: Chickensalad

Would you consider the ban on using lead in gasoline a totalitarian measure too?


The problem we face is primarily a chemistry problem with a major consequence of the excess CO2 we are releasing being more radiative forcing in.the atmosphere which traps heat.

It is a problem we are causing and I can only hope my generation will collectively decide to be responsible and take measures to control the CO2 problem.

a reply to: Chickensalad

Seems like I remember hearing a lot of the same arguments when we were addressing acid rain.

"It's not a real problem," "We're not the cause," "It can't be fixed," etc., etc., etc..

As it turned out, it was a real problem, caused by us, that could be fixed.

Who'd a thunk it?

a reply to: Chickensalad

There's so much about the "climate change" issue that bothers me. But I finally realized that the bottom line for me is that whether I "believe" in man-made climate change or not, the proposed solutions are all crappy!!!

And for people who think the world is coming to an end if we don't change our ways, they sure leave a HUGE carbon footprint all over the world... If they really believed the crap they're spouting, they would change their ways FIRST.

Most important, industrial hemp would have been decriminalized and promoted around the world, in a massive effort to replace those dirty nasty petro products with clean and organic hemp products...

If climate change is real, then the people screaming the loudest are doing ALL the wrong things. If I did believe in man-made climate change, I would be absolutely furious... instead of just disgusted.

a reply to: Boadicea

the proposed solutions are all crappy!!!

Really? Solar power is a crappy idea? Wave power? How about OTEC? Carbon capture and sequestration are crappy ideas? Why? There are a lot of "proposed solutions." All crappy?

Most important, industrial hemp would have been decriminalized and promoted around the world, in a massive effort to replace those dirty nasty petro products with clean and organic hemp products...

Can you explain how the use of hemp would replace petroleum? Are you speaking of its use as a biofuel? Is it a better biofuel than say, corn or sugarcane?

a reply to: Phage

Really? Solar power is a crappy idea?

Solar power is awesome. But not the surcharge on homeowners with solar charged by the electric companies. Nor the foreign companies given precedence over domestic solar firms. Neither do I especially like birds getting fried mid-flight. And not the federal dollars given to solar companies that file bankruptcy and close their doors within a couple years.

Can you explain how the use of hemp would replace petroleum? Are you speaking of its use as a biofuel?

Use as a fuel is just the tip of the iceberg. It can replace virtually every rubber/plastic product. It can also replace many/most products made from timber; in fact, hemp paper is actually superior to paper made from lumber. Hemp can also easily replace the high-chemical cotton and linen crops for fabric.

originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: Chickensalad

Seems like I remember hearing a lot of the same arguments when we were addressing acid rain.

I remember as a child the complaints from American car manufacturers about how oppressive the smog regulations were. CA environmentalists were hippie tree-huggers. (At least they weren't called Enviro-Nazis then, as if not wanting to breathe junk was like fascist dictatorships pillaging, bombing and genociding).

I grew up in LA. Well, Volvo and Honda hired engineers, while big 3 hired lawyers.

Who was right?

"It's not a real problem," "We're not the cause," "It can't be fixed," etc., etc., etc..
As it turned out, it was a real problem, caused by us, that could be fixed.
Who'd a thunk it?

Liberal enviro-nazis. And scientists.

originally posted by: Boadicea
If climate change is real, then the people screaming the loudest are doing ALL the wrong things. If I did believe in man-made climate change, I would be absolutely furious... instead of just disgusted.

So the right thing I guess is to promise some emotionally attractive, super expensive techno-fix----or a "all-natural" Whole-Foods-Upon-Disney delusion---which violate known laws of physics, and then shame scientists as being unpatriotic hoaxers when they object?

Hemp? Really?

They used to make ropes and sails out of hemp. They stopped.

Meanwhile....


- We'll keep selling water in a gazillion little plastic bottles.

- Dust hundreds of thousands of crops with poison that saturates the soil and seeps down into the water tables.

- Continue to make absolutely everything out of plastic (even the damn packaging it comes in) that takes a bazillion years to break down.

- Dumping millions upon millions of gallons of toxins into our waterways and oceans.

- Wiping out entire swaths of land from any and all flora/fauna.

- Flying in jumbo jets to have Friday afternoon luncheons with our pals on the other side of the planet, only to get back on another jet to zip across another continent to catch the first showing of Pirates of Penzance at the opera house.

- Mining entire mountains until they're nothing but a vacant memory.

- Digging pit mines until the face of the planet looks like someone with a severe case of acne scars.

... And so on and so forth.



So what's the big world-changing solution TPTB have come up with for all this ??

Let's tax the crap out of a gas that consists of 0.04% of the total atmosphere.

Weeeeeeee !



What a fricken sh** show.

The real problem is trying to convince the ordinary man in the street that it's their problem and only by punishing them will the problem be fixed. Now educated or un educated the majority of people can see through the smoke screen that is being put up by the western governments and they are not buying it. What to do?
When you can actually see one Chinese chemo factory throwing more pollutants in the air in one day than probably all the automobiles in the US in a year then how does the ordinary man in the street address this. There are enumerable factories like this in China, India and accross the third world countries yet they want you to turn your thermostat down two degrees, stop the local farmers cattle from farting and walk to work not drive (of course they don't take into concideration that I have to cart aroud a boot full of tools).
When they stop the Chinese and Indians mass polluting the atmosphere then I'll turn my thermostat down.

originally posted by: Chickensalad
a reply to: beenharmed

Are humans, us , not part of nature, do we not originate from here....do our products not originate from nature itself...

Unless we are pulling resources from some other planet, everything we are and produce has originated from nature. We just work it into things useful for us as.

Again, I think we just need a different mindset that allows us to make the smallest impact possible.

Nature....organic life.

Earth = created state.

If you alter the created state...Earth and uranium and plutonium a part of Earth....not Nature, then Nature gets destroyed. We existed only because of the created Earth.

Only a scientist would consider an Earth product Nature...Earth itself has no Nature.....Earth supports Nature.

Change the stone and Nature dies...just as being demonstrated.

The reason for changing the Nature....ownership.

Elitists who claim ownership of Earth products that a human life does not own. You make a review and consider a product and give it a personal value....yet it has no value...only to the human considering value.

If you value Earth to be a product to convert....then Earth will convert your Nature...for not considering the truth....elitism itself.

We once lived a spiritual life on a supported life of Earth without alteration to our Nature.

Elitism wanting ownership of their own family...forced a condition of ownership upon their own family...built civilization...invented for self purpose, make statements that the purpose of inventing was for their families sake when it never was.....it was for the sake of their own greed.

They then destroy the Earth's natural created body...it alters the condition of our Nature and they still try to destroy our life by elite considerations....owning fuel sources and trying to invent artificial fuel sources.

You do not own our lives occultists, you do not own powers occultists...and eventually you will pay the price...your own life for having changed life.

a reply to: Gothmog

So ignore every politician, and listen to what the scientists are saying.. There's so much about this that consists of people saying "well that doesn't make sense to me and therefore it must be wrong".. when in reality, a lot of science is non-intuitive.. take a look at quantum physics sometime, for example. If something was obvious and made a ton of sense, you wouldn't need science to investigate it, because everyone would already know.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Boadicea

the proposed solutions are all crappy!!!

Really? Solar power is a crappy idea? Wave power? How about OTEC? Carbon capture and sequestration are crappy ideas? Why? There are a lot of "proposed solutions." All crappy?

It's my personal opinion that much of the resistance to change is because of the heavy handed attitude coming from those who are demanding the change but want to live a lifestyle that is exempted from it...

About a month ago I was researching how much progress the Dow solar shingles have made in acceptance and whether the price has come down any. In the process I came across an article that was a glaring example of the snarky attitude of the control freaks who are pushing this stuff.

To start off, the guy couldn't pass up the opportunity to insult the men and women who destroy their knees and backs by getting up on those roofs to do the job. He pointed out that, since the "best & brightest" aren't likely to be laying them down, there are three circles spaced across the top edge with the words "Nail Here" stamped into the asphalt (they still have to have an asphalt base for the solar panel. They connect with a small port about like a USB.) just to make sure the roofer can figure out where the nails go.

I got even more aggravated when the author of the article went into a rant about how the world must think of sustainability in all things and we must think of future generations when we make use of finite resources now. Therefore, since I live in the Ohio Valley and live in a house that runs North to South and is over 120 years old, I would be cheating future generations of finite resources if I put solar shingles on both the Eastern & Western sides of my roof. The optimal configuration is to build E to W and put the shingles only on your S facing roof!

As far as I can tell it is much more about control than it is climate. The Sun still comes up in the E and sets in the W, so if I can afford (which I can't) to shingle both sides of my roof what business is it of his?

a reply to: CornShucker

It's my personal opinion that much of the resistance to change is because of the heavy handed attitude coming from those who are demanding the change but want to live a lifestyle that is exempted from it...

What a very rational way to look at it.
I don't care how good an idea it is, I don't like your attitude so forget it.

Those shingles are awesome by the way. My house has the right orientation but I have a flat roof, so not for me.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: CornShucker

It's my personal opinion that much of the resistance to change is because of the heavy handed attitude coming from those who are demanding the change but want to live a lifestyle that is exempted from it...

What a very rational way to look at it.
I don't care how good an idea it is, I don't like your attitude so forget it.

Not much point in my covering old territory, I've written about this often. I do what I can where I can, but I don't like being lectured to by muckety-mucks that fly half-way around the world to dine on fine cuisine and give a 15 minute speech about what all the little people should be doing.

I'm all for cutting back pollution wherever it's possible.

I've even got my spot in line (just shy of #13,000) if our gov't ever lets the Elio go into full production. With a 3-cylinder engine designed specifically for the Elio and a target of 84mpg on the highway I would be doing my part to reduce my carbon footprint regardless of whether they are right or not. My wife and I are old enough that the majority of our driving doesn't require a full sized car that carries five people. If I needed to run for groceries, the back seat folds down and you could fit two or three bags in the back.

Those shingles are awesome by the way. My house has the right orientation but I have a flat roof, so not for me.

I thought they were a great idea when I first heard of them. Just like everything else that's new there will be a period where the earliest users will pay a premium for the privilege and also serve as unofficial R&D in working the bugs out, but the potential is there for a product that could make a real difference.

From what I've read the biggest weakness so far is the fact that a bad storm can cause loose connections and you are basically talking about a daisy-chain configuration that has all connections hidden under the overlap of the shingles. Hopefully they'll get it figured out. The idea, itself, is great!