What Happens When Pregnant Women Are Criminalized For Drug Use

a reply to: DEANORULES24

You are right, here in the south, most children that have residual substance abuse from uterus from drug addict mothers are not even living with the mothers they are either raised by family members or foster homes.

The mothers can not take care of this babies if they can not take care of themselves.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

Why aren't you more concerned about the unborn babies?

They don't care about the unborn babies. They don't consider the unborn to be human beings, remember?

To do so would completely undermine their position on abortion.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: opethPA

First off, there shouldn't even BE consequences for using. Second off, punishing the mother for using while pregnant is going to seriously hurt the child in the long run.

Yeah, you know what..Their shouldn't be consequences for doing anything actually.
Drunk, high, text driving? Nope no consequences for that.
Stealing money from someone so you can go get your next hit, yah no consequences there either.
Punch someone in the face, nah..no consequences.

Here are the facts..if you make the choice to inject , snort, sniff, drink, whatever that first sip of alcohol or heroin or coke you still made that choice.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

So leaving a baby with a drug addicted mother is the right choice?

I had an aunt who became addicted to crack, and on top of the 4 children she had, she pumped out 3 other crack babies. She's dead now from an overdose.

All her kids would have been much better off never having known who she was.

Most drug addicts don't get better. They die from their addiction causing lots of pain to everyone who knew them along the way.

a reply to: watchitburn

I'd say that instead of locking her up and stripping her of her children because she was using while pregnant maybe try to get her into a rehab center to help her clean her act up. Only if she demonstrates an unwillingness to quit after rehab would I suggest that you take her kids away from her.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Would we be crying if this was about some heroin addict handcuffing a woman to a toilet and forcing drugs into her? Still no big deal, they just need some help?

I would be. I don't like any drug users either forced or voluntary sitting in jail for what they did.

Seriously? Forcing another person to ingest narcotics shouldn't be a criminal act, so long as the person doing the forcing can say they're an addict?

That's pretty mind blowing, man.

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

Why aren't you more concerned about the unborn babies?

They don't care about the unborn babies. They don't consider the unborn to be human beings, remember?

To do so would completely undermine their position on abortion.

This issue isn't about abortion and you are taking the topic OT to make some petty partisan attack. Please stop.

originally posted by: opethPA

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: opethPA

First off, there shouldn't even BE consequences for using. Second off, punishing the mother for using while pregnant is going to seriously hurt the child in the long run.

Yeah, you know what..Their shouldn't be consequences for doing anything actually.
Drunk, high, text driving? Nope no consequences for that.
Stealing money from someone so you can go get your next hit, yah no consequences there either.
Punch someone in the face, nah..no consequences.

Here are the facts..if you make the choice to inject , snort, sniff, drink, whatever that first sip of alcohol or heroin or coke you still made that choice.

That isn't what I meant and you should know that.

What people doesn't understand is the vicious cycle that follow this children for life, first they are born addicted, then they are in charge of the state, they are under medical care for life, but once they become of legal age, they are released into society often with juvenile records already, to start the vicious cycle all over again.

Who should we blame, society? the government,? the mothers? this children and later adults are what our next generations will be.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Would we be crying if this was about some heroin addict handcuffing a woman to a toilet and forcing drugs into her? Still no big deal, they just need some help?

I would be. I don't like any drug users either forced or voluntary sitting in jail for what they did.

Seriously? Forcing another person to ingest narcotics shouldn't be a criminal act, so long as the person doing the forcing can say they're an addict?

That's pretty mind blowing, man.

Well the person forcing the drugs on the other would be a crime. Maybe I was confused. I thought you were suggesting that you'd jail someone who had drugs forced on them.

originally posted by: marg6043
What people doesn't understand is the vicious cycle that follow this children for life, first they are born addicted, then they are in charge of the state, they are under medical care for life, but once they become of legal age, they are released into society often with juvenile records already, to start the vicious cycle all over again.

Who should we blame, society? the government,? the mothers? this children and later adults are what our next generations will be.

This is what I've been trying to get at with my thread. It is a VERY complicated and nuanced issue, and jailing the mother is an overly simplistic solution to it that likely contributes to making the situation worse more than it helps.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

This issue isn't about abortion and you are taking the topic OT to make some petty partisan attack. Please stop.

I think it's a highly relevant observation to make. The unborn cannot be considered human beings in one instance and not the other.

It's about ideological consistency, which you are completely ignoring to make a point about drug laws (which, I agree with you, are rather absurd) and rehabilitation.

Well, I have a personal story and I absolutely think addiction should be viewed as a medical problem because ...it IS. It's also a complex social, economic and educational problem ... but that is a bit involved... the story, now...

A woman I knew made national news in the 90's because her baby died and she had a history of opiate abuse, so the authorities charged her with using opiates, breast feeding and then killing her child with an over dose given through nursing.

Problem was, it was found a week later that it had died from SIDS and no drugs were found in it... at all... and all she got was a blurb in a local paper retracting the story, after she had appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, 60 Minutes and the MSN as the worst mother ever ...but the damage was done and she committed suicide.

Truth was, she had heroically stopped using and was a surprisingly loving, good, attentive, patient mom ...only after being pilloried in the public eye and losing her friggan baby that she loved beyond belief, she simply couldn't live here anymore.

Anyway, every addict has a story, and some of them deserve pity, some admiration, some disdain, but once addicted, it absolutely is a medical issue, not a punitive one. Believe me, I know.

ETA: btw, some docs now think SIDS can be traced back to a vit c deficiency.. .fyi

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

This issue isn't about abortion and you are taking the topic OT to make some petty partisan attack. Please stop.

I think it's a highly relevant observation to make. The unborn cannot be considered human beings in one instance and not the other.

Making a remark about how "they" don't consider the unborn to be babies, thus speaking for people outside of your belief structures is relevant? Sorry buddy, that isn't relevant. It is just petty, mean, and is a a PERFECT example of someone trying to troll a thread to get everyone worked up and yelling at each other.

It's about ideological consistency, which you are completely ignoring to make a point about drug law (which, I agree with you, are rather absurd) and rehabilitation.

I'm not ignoring it. It's irrelevant and you are trying to troll me. Now you are trying to get me to go off topic with you by trying to guilt me into discussing your red herring.

Do pregnant women, addicts or not, somehow waive their Fourth Amendment Rights?

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I'm not advocating Crack Babies, but if the answer to that is no, then this should be a medical issue rather than a criminal one in my opinion. If the answer is yes, and apparently it is, then how far do we allow the state to take it. Should expectant mothers also be charged for high cholesterol or ingesting a Big Gulp soda?

a reply to: Baddogma

Yea, this must be why we can't get anywhere when it comes to treating substance abuse in this country. So many refuse to believe that addiction is a disease that we need to HELP people overcome. Not everyone can quit cold turkey or get their addictions under control. Even people who have gone through help still relapse. It's certainly on display in this thread. I keep hearing how using drugs is a choice. Yeah maybe when you first start using its a choice, but eventually it stops being a choice.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I live in the south, I know how bad this situation is, but sadly the children of addicted mothers will end following the mothers steps as adults because is a trend in this nation in which people no longer care.

The welfare legacy.

a reply to: marg6043

Well right now, in our culture of "eff em they are drug users" that is true, but if we were to actually put forth an effort to help people (as well as their children if necessary) then maybe we can start working on breaking that cycle.

*Disclaimer*

I've only read the OP so some of this may have been said, for the record I'm for legalising drugs and an end to the war it entails.



Now, what sort of scumbag takes drugs whilst they're pregnant.

Yes, they definitely deserve to be criminalised for endangering the life and health of a child.


Back to /rant...
Doing drugs should be he choice of the individual (re end the war it entails and legalising)...
But a baby or foetus has no choice in the matter.

It's selfish, it's reckless, it's inhumane.

Screw these women.
Especially in the case of separated parents and the father having no say or any way of helping his unborn child.


Disgusting.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

How would jailing the mother for taking drugs while pregnant improve the child's life?