I am proud to be a socialist.

a reply to: nonspecific

I know the love you have for your country.

Would that make you a National Socialist?

originally posted by: nonspecific
At some point in the fairly recent past the issue of socialism escalated somewhat.

There have been some really great threads about the benefits of the ideology yet we always seem to go around the same old arguments and it amount's to nothing.

This said I would like to say that I have a deep regard for many aspects of socialism and regardless of the attacks and insults that always ensue I will stand up and be proud for my beliefs.

It has it's failings when taken too far but a careful blend of socialism and capitalism is to me the only way to progress as both systems are flawed when taken as an extreme.

Given the choice between the two I would choose it over capitalism any day of the week.

Well, sadly, your position would make us political opponents, but I still value you your input and opinions as a excellent poster on ATS.

As a Libertarian I find Socialism to be the antithesis of most of what I believe. Socialism is a bloated, authoritarian Government by necessity that I would attempt to minimize if not stop from coming to fruition.

I would still have a beer with you though...

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: nonspecific
At some point in the fairly recent past the issue of socialism escalated somewhat.

There have been some really great threads about the benefits of the ideology yet we always seem to go around the same old arguments and it amount's to nothing.

This said I would like to say that I have a deep regard for many aspects of socialism and regardless of the attacks and insults that always ensue I will stand up and be proud for my beliefs.

It has it's failings when taken too far but a careful blend of socialism and capitalism is to me the only way to progress as both systems are flawed when taken as an extreme.

Given the choice between the two I would choose it over capitalism any day of the week.

Well, sadly, your position would make us political opponents, but I still value you your input and opinions as a excellent poster on ATS.

As a Libertarian I find Socialism to be the antithesis of most of what I believe. Socialism is a bloated, authoritarian Government by necessity that I would attempt to minimize if not stop from coming to fruition.

I would still have a beer with you though...

I think you may have a jaded view of socialism sir, If we were to sit down with some beers I think we would agree more than not.

I am all for freedom but simply feel that certain things should be kept from corperations.

If we had cheap and socialised basic needs for all? Energy, heat, water, health care?

A simple basis of existence combined with not starving if you fell on hard times through no fault of your own?

Could you really disagree with a system like that?

I think you would agree with that although I may be wrong as long as there was not too much control over it?

originally posted by: Edumakated
All one has to do is look at the VA and medicare to see how socialized medicine works.

I couldn't be more in disagrement.

The main reason socialized medicine is costing that much is BECAUSE meds costs too much, the equipment costs too much, doctors are payed too much and the education to become a doctor is also too expensive.

Those problems all come from greedy capitalism.

originally posted by: Edumakated
It means when people are young they are idealistic. However, as they age and gain experience in the real world, they wise up and realize the world is not rainbows and unicorn tears.

They don't wise up, they give up and since THEY made it through, they don't want others to get it easier.
It's a pathetic way of thinking that will never get humanity nowhere.

a reply to: nonspecific

Well sir, YOU are a reasonable person and I have no doubt we could find some common ground and solution to meet everyone's needs. The problem is those people in charge don't care about my liberty or taking care of those in need. They only care about their own needs and keeping themselves in charge.

originally posted by: Metallicus
The problem is those people in charge don't care about my liberty or taking care of those in need. They only care about their own needs and keeping themselves in charge.

On that, we can all agree!

Every "ism" could have it's place but the corrupted individuals at the top are the ones creating most problems and dividing us to keep the power.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: nonspecific

Well sir, YOU are a reasonable person and I have no doubt we could find some common ground and solution to meet everyone's needs. The problem is those people in charge don't care about my liberty or taking care of those in need. They only care about their own needs and keeping themselves in charge.

I think that highlights why you need both people on the political scale

You need librals to make sure the needy are provided for and you need conservatives to make sure they dont go to far and are accountable.

A healthy country needs a strong opposition.......which is likely why the USA is in trouble. The USA two main parties are practically the same so there is no accountability.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: nonspecific

Well sir, YOU are a reasonable person and I have no doubt we could find some common ground and solution to meet everyone's needs. The problem is those people in charge don't care about my liberty or taking care of those in need. They only care about their own needs and keeping themselves in charge.

I think that highlights why you need both people on the political scale

You need librals to make sure the needy are provided for and you need conservatives to make sure they dont go to far and are accountable.

A healthy country needs a strong opposition.......which is likely why the USA is in trouble. The USA two main parties are practically the same so there is no accountability.

This is why I like Corbyn.

I disagree with a lot of what he has to say but I like that he is an opposite to the tory party that has power.

We need perspective if nothing more than to balance power.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: nonspecific

Well sir, YOU are a reasonable person and I have no doubt we could find some common ground and solution to meet everyone's needs. The problem is those people in charge don't care about my liberty or taking care of those in need. They only care about their own needs and keeping themselves in charge.

I think that highlights why you need both people on the political scale

You need librals to make sure the needy are provided for and you need conservatives to make sure they dont go to far and are accountable.

A healthy country needs a strong opposition.......which is likely why the USA is in trouble. The USA two main parties are practically the same so there is no accountability.

This is why I like Corbyn.

I disagree with a lot of what he has to say but I like that he is an opposite to the tory party that has power.

We need perspective if nothing more than to balance power.

I hope to god he never becomes PM, but I am glad he is there snapping at camrons toes and keeping them on guard. Milliband was a wet blanket and had the back bone of a slug and the conviction of a 5 year old girl.

a reply to: nonspecific

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.

I'm sure you are familiar with this concept but it bares repeating.

What have socialistic countries invented? iPhone? Tv? Car? What contribution do they make to the world!?

Capitalism is creative.

a reply to: MRuss

Yes because we all need iphones lol.

What about lightbulbs that do not burn out?

Opps.

Try agiain.


Give me a nationalised healthcare system against an iphone anyday.

Really?

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: nonspecific

Well sir, YOU are a reasonable person and I have no doubt we could find some common ground and solution to meet everyone's needs. The problem is those people in charge don't care about my liberty or taking care of those in need. They only care about their own needs and keeping themselves in charge.

I am sure you know this but look at the dictionary definitian of a poliatican.

The first responsibility of a politician is to to the party they represent. The primary aim of a career politician is to ensure that the party they represent remains in power.

a reply to: nonspecific

I am proud to be a socialist.

Why would you be proud of something that has consistently, time and time again, failed? That's like saying you're proud to be a flat-earther.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: nonspecific

I am proud to be a socialist.

Why would you be proud of something that has consistently, time and time again, failed? That's like saying you're proud to be a flat-earther.

Beacuse it has merit.

Not in entirety as I said but aspects of it have wonder do you not agree ?

a reply to: nonspecific

Beacuse it has merit.

Not in entirety as I said but aspects of it have wonder do you not agree ?

I do disagree. State control over the means to production leads to totalitarianism and intellectual stagnation. This has been proven time and time again.

If I could suggest a good argument that you might read, check out F. A. Hayek's the Road to Serfdom. It's a great read, and it may change your mind for the better.

There is a free PDF of it available here: LINK if you are interested.

IMO utilities should be socialized. Where I live water is run by the county, but electric is privatized. The electric companies are not competing or innovating. They provide a necessity and squeeze as much money as they can from people they supply it to. All the innovation is generally funded by government grants or loans.

In the US if we switched to Geothermal electric costs would be half of what we pay now, but building those plants requires 2 to 3 times as much capital as a coal factory so banks don't lend because there isn't as fast of a turnaround on their investment or when they do the plants are downsized because of funding limitations. Yet a coal plant will get subsidized fossil fuels.

Investors win the public losses.

a reply to: nonspecific

If we had cheap and socialised basic needs for all? Energy, heat, water, health care?

1. Those things are NOT cheap.

2. Energy and health care are NOT basic needs.

It's a bit disingenuous to ask that question when it's flawed like that. Shelter, food, water are basic needs. Anything that requires someone else in order for you to have it is not basic. And to presume it is and that you have a right to it is to presume you also have a right to that person's labor and efforts, in other words, to enslave them to your ends.

This is the problem I have with socialism. It enslaves us all to the provide against the idea that everyone has some right to what I produce and my labor. If you are proud of the concept of slavery, then more power to you. In fact, as a libertarian, I fully endorse you going off with a bunch of other socialist and living in perpetual slavery to a central authority somewhere.

What I have issue with is when you come to my place and say that you are forcing me into your system "for my own good" whether I want or need your system. And that really is the problem. Socialists can't just go be socialists without forcing everyone else to come along into their system with them.

originally posted by: Edumakated


Public education in the US is socialized and it has been an unmitigated disaster, particularly for the poor. All one has to do is look at the VA and medicare to see how socialized medicine works.

Check your history - the public schools in the US were once the gold standard for the rest of the World. It only took 40 years of Raygun - omics and greed to destroy it.

a reply to: nonspecific

Not certain that I agree with you 100%...

But gotta say...

Good on you for standing up for your beliefs!