San Bernardino, Calif., fire units responding to reports of 20-victim shooting incident -

originally posted by: tonycodes
a reply to: Daedal

uh, im starting to see Muslim Americans reaching out and also calling this terrorism and even questions why would the president not name this Radical Islam... If American Muslims are fed up and ready to take these groups out, then I dont really care what politicians have to say about this.

It doesn't matter what people think or say, what matters is what happened, whose involved. And before we go calling for war, let's get all the ducks in a row.

You can believe what you will, myself however, I'll wait for more than assumptions and presumptions.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

A couple of points here...

First, at face value your logic seems sound. However, the reality of the matter is quite different.

The Muslim communities you refer to are exactly where these people gravitate to. This is where they wind up. This, because of language barriers and cultural differences. And unfortunately, due to their culture of live and let live, these communities don't do a very good job of flagging up these radical types so they wind up hiding them (intentionally or unintentionally).

So, what you wind up with are these little microcosms, islands if you will, of a whole other country inside of a larger one. What you want is diversity, but this winds up creating the exact opposite.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
BREAKING...Reuters: Female shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS online.

BREAKING NEWS: Female San Bernardino shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS: government source

live.reuters.com...

Here is a link to a story at WCVB Boston

As the San Bernardino attack was happening, investigators believe the female shooter, Tashfeen Malik, posted on Facebook, pledging allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, three U.S. officials familiar with the investigation told CNN. The posting was by Malik made on an account with a different name, according to one U.S. official. The officials did not explain how they knew Malik made the post.

Then... honest, no sh1t.... here is the headline:

San Bernardino shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS Concrete motive yet to surface

Seriously. How can someone write that headline? Unless they are on some kind of mind altering drugs...

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
My first thought after reading your post was the event called "The Battle of Athens". There was a time when people had the ability to take back the rule of law.

Unfortunately we don't have enough level heads that can be disconnected from the Matrix to make this work.


m.youtube.com...

a reply to: Indigo5

Nor are they saying that it is patently obvious there are more people involved...which is my point.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: butcherguy

What do we hear???

I'll tell you what we hear...

We hear...

"I hate America, and I'm going to do everything in my power to destroy it. I'm in this for me, me...ME...and don't you ever forget it! You don't think I can???? Just watch me; I'm going to turn everyone against each other, completely divide the nation along racial, ideological and religious boundaries, then fire up the fringe elements of all these groups to act, represent this as the mainstream and then create absolute anarchy among the masses. And this is just for starters. Then I'm going to overtly ignore the real problems and focus on non-issues like global warming to further obfuscate the problems. I'm going to turn the world upside down...all by myself. ME! Criminals and killers will get a free pass and law abiding citizens will be the enemy"

THAT...is what we hear from the "elected" leader one of the largest and most powerful nations in the free world!

Very well put. So as not to connect my appreciation for what you said with what I am about to type because you may not agree with it, I put a pause here...

President Obama is a practiced expert at saying the wrong things to (most of) the American people with the obvious result. It's not unintentional and it's almost like a vendetta he perpetuates. There're a lot of higher-ups who've despised him from the start.

It's obvious to me this massacre took place for a reason on the heels of mainstream exposure of the U.S.'s involvement with and creation of IS. Massacres "can be" used as reset buttons. Time and time again this kind of thing has occurred in the U.S. just as collective thought and awareness was headed in a certain direction. The connection I just made is not a coincidence in my mind.

What better way to capture America's attention than to use an incident to threaten more gun control? How do many Americans respond? By buying more guns and ammo. What happens to the public collective thought and awareness of the U.S being involved in funding terrorism around the world as an example? It's derailed into arguments pro and con about guns.

When something like this "happens" I believe that public discussion across the Internet is carefully monitored and the subterfuge begins based upon what people are saying.

My comments are going to seem out of phase when I hit the reply button because this thread is moving so fast. I'm sorry about that.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: IAMTAT
BREAKING...Reuters: Female shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS online.

BREAKING NEWS: Female San Bernardino shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS: government source

live.reuters.com...

Here is a link to a story at WCVB Boston

As the San Bernardino attack was happening, investigators believe the female shooter, Tashfeen Malik, posted on Facebook, pledging allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, three U.S. officials familiar with the investigation told CNN. The posting was by Malik made on an account with a different name, according to one U.S. official. The officials did not explain how they knew Malik made the post.

Then... honest, no sh1t.... here is the headline:

San Bernardino shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS Concrete motive yet to surface

Seriously. How can someone write that headline? Unless they are on some kind of mind altering drugs...

This is the "cool aid" to which I continually refer.

It's outrageous, this denial.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: IAMTAT
BREAKING...Reuters: Female shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS online.

BREAKING NEWS: Female San Bernardino shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS: government source

live.reuters.com...

Here is a link to a story at WCVB Boston

As the San Bernardino attack was happening, investigators believe the female shooter, Tashfeen Malik, posted on Facebook, pledging allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, three U.S. officials familiar with the investigation told CNN. The posting was by Malik made on an account with a different name, according to one U.S. official. The officials did not explain how they knew Malik made the post.

Then... honest, no sh1t.... here is the headline:

San Bernardino shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS Concrete motive yet to surface

Seriously. How can someone write that headline? Unless they are on some kind of mind altering drugs...

I hope we can stop the silly debate over whether this was a fight over Egg Nog at a Christmas party. This was clearly terrorism and the female seems to be the lead in this situation.

a reply to: Indigo5

Exactly. By tipping too much of their hand it would cause persons of interest to go underground.

It was only after the shootout did one of the expert analysts (retired FBI I think) on the news mention to the interviewing reporter that one of the names he heard about was Middle Eastern sounding. Again, too much information too soon can backfire ongoing investigation.

a reply to: butcherguy

Her pledging allegiance to ISIS via FB during the attack + Attempted escape vs. blow yourself up + they were strapped with GoPro camera's...speaks to what I speculated yesterday IMO.

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: marg6043

More interesting...

The couple also had GoPro cameras strapped to their body armor
www.foxnews.com...


Possibly workplace retribution + pseudo lone wolf (married couple) with the delusion that they would escape, travel to Syria and be greeted as heroes with the GoPro footage as their prize?

So it seems to be ISIS related terror!

Looks like this woman in the group supported ISIS!

originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: Indigo5

Exactly. By tipping too much of their hand it would cause persons of interest to go underground.

If I was FBI spokesperson...I'd much rather be guilty of telling the press too little than be guilty of tipping off terrorists that might be hiding in the US before we find them.

I don't fault the Feds for keeping tight lipped and quietly and quickly hunting them down would seem the better strategy than shouting..there are more of them! Everybody panic!

So the wife pledged allegiance to ISIS.
I seem to recall Obama snarkily saying something about Republicans being afraid of WOMEN and children coming into this country from the ME...and becoming citizens.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
So the wife pledged allegiance to ISIS.
I seem to recall Obama snarkily saying something about Republicans being afraid of WOMEN and children coming into this country from the ME...and becoming citizens.

Exactly!!!

The women in this case seems to be the leader.

Careful people.

Have to watch what you say now.

Being critical of ISIS just might land you with the DOJ on your back.

And will soon be classified as 'hate speech'.

Loretta Lynch Vows to Prosecute Those Who Use 'Anti-Muslim' Speech That 'Edges Toward Violence'

originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: Indigo5

Exactly. By tipping too much of their hand it would cause persons of interest to go underground.

It was only after the shootout did one of the expert analysts (retired FBI I think) on the news mention to the interviewing reporter that one of the names he heard about was Middle Eastern sounding. Again, too much information too soon can backfire ongoing investigation.

Agreed, it's already been out there that they know that the terrorist did not purchase the ARs... but, they were bought "legally" so there is a paper trail which needs to be investigated, who knows how far this rabbit hole will go, I will remain patient and hope that the FBI can root out those associated with Farook/Malik and potentially take down more who are planning harm on US soil...

As far as how the Obama administration is handling the PR surrounding this attack? Is anyone surprised?

a reply to: Ahabstar

No argument on the 'too much information' concept potentially compromising an investigation. However, I would clarify your point by saying 'too much "specific" information' can compromise an investigation.

Media and authorities characterizing this as an isolated incident versus a larger, more organized, terrorist act is not the same thing as releasing specific information. No, it is part of an agenda, and has nothing to do with the investigation one way or the other.

...and it's wrong.

Fortunately, simply due to the overwhelming amount of information to the contrary, it would appear the facts that this truly was part of a larger effort are coming to light, but only just now. Up until this point there has been a very concerted effort to paint this incident as an isolated incident

originally posted by: combatmaster
So it seems to be ISIS related terror!

Looks like this woman in the group supported ISIS!

Not trying to provoke an emotional debate...But how should we be slicing these kinds of folks and similarly semantically?

A fan of the Green Bay Packers is not a Green Bay Packer even if he dresses like one and throws the football in his back yard.

Do we need clear communications from ISIS leadership? Direction? Financial support and planning? To call this an "attack by ISIS"

What happens when some loony-tunes white, middle class teenager ends up committing some atrocious act and cites ISIS as inspiration and has the tweets of support to prove it?

Just thinking this one out. Do one way FB posts and tweets of support for ISIS count as them "being" ISIS?

And does "Lone Wolf"...vs. "ISIS Inspired"..vs. "ISIS coordinated, planned and supported" matter and why?

These attacks differ dramatically IMO from the planning, timeline and investment of AQ and 9-11.

And this looks different than Paris.

It is more a Fort Hood scenario IMO...Inspiration, but not direct planning and support?

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Maybe. But we do have a significant number of people across the country that are licensed CCW holders, which in many states require not only a FBI background check but like in Ohio require the local county sheriff to issue the permit as a final check and balance to the classroom and firearm proficiency training paperwork presented.

That differs from the few states that allow constitutional carry, of which the only requirements are legal age and full time resident of that state. Which is why there is not a national reciprocity for CCW holders and why each state chooses what state issued licenses they accept.

Conversely, every state accepts the drivers license of every other state despite the requirements from issuing and proficiency testing differs state to state, even with CDL's.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
I understand what you are saying. I just don't see a peaceful way out of this mess without trustworthy, peaceful, Muslims helping control this mess.

From the attacks I have witnessed here at ATS, there are billions of them, and there are supposedly, less than 0.5% that are terrorist. Surely there has to be an effective way this can be achieved.

The only other solution will be to refuse entry of anyone until they can be thoroughly vetted, even if that takes years. We have seen what can happen with the standards presently in place.