For anyone who thinks non-believers are going to hell

a reply to: scorpio84

Hint: If you are not familiar with the term Q source, you could not begin to start a debate with me on Christian theology. So, here's a challenge - convince me that God is real and I will become a believer.

pretty sure this is the same challenge as debating theism, and pretty sure your ability to know about a hypothetical document doesn't make you an expert on Christian theology.

originally posted by: scorpio84
Hint: If you are not familiar with the term Q source, you could not begin to start a debate with me on Christian theology.

There we have it!
A solid wall of ego is erected and, from behind which, you dare anyone to penetrate it.
That ego/Pride is the only 'sin'.
It carries the 'sin warning' because it will blind you to unconditional Love/Self/God!
You cannot see past the wall of your ego, no wonder you have no experience with anything on the 'other side'!
And the more anyone attempts to bully through, the more it will be reinforced!
Life can be spent doing nothing but reinforcing that 'protective' (exclusionary) wall!

Is that on sufficiently topic, for you?
You are not required to like it, truth does hurt, the ego!

originally posted by: Zhennn
a reply to: scorpio84

It is Simple,

Do you think God would show you his face?
right, if non believers actually had 100% proof god existed they would worship him.
That is why god doesn't want you, Non-believers to worship him because you have to believe it first!

IMO, God could show Himself to plenty of non-believers and they would deny Him anyhow. They disbelieve and it is as much a part them as belief is a part of a believer.

a reply to: scorpio84

I've met some pretty nasty and mean spirited faithful and Sunday church goers. I personally think it's more important to show kindness and lead a caring life rather than follow any kind of man made religion. People can wrap themselves up in a flag of faith, but that doesn't mean they're better or have a go to heaven card free card. A lot of criminals and murderers wear crucifixes around their necks! Actions speak louder than words, and I think everyone will be judged accordingly.

Just my 2 cents.

I know for sure that no one, and no non-believer, is going to Hell. How do I know this? The Bible is silent on the subject, and every instance of the word "hell" is footnoted "Sheol" in my Bible. Sheol is the realm of the dead, the grave, the pit, and it carries no meaning of eternal suffering in fire. If you pursue the subject of fire, you will find that the fire of God is cleansing and corrective, not destructive and punishing. Besides, the same Bible gives us broad hints, and even explicit details that all are saved in a vastly better future Kingdom.

On that foundation, I also know that the OP will remain a non-believer until he is touched by God, when He puts His spirit into the person. It will happen. I speak as an ex-athiest.

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

It's a shadowing thing mostly. You know, like when Moses was asked to sacrifice his son, but God didn't actually want him to sacrifice his son. It's a heart thing...I don't really know how else to explain it other than with the words of the author of Hebrews....

That was Abraham, not Moses.

a reply to: scorpio84
You're missing some key factors regarding Christian doctrine. It isn't the Christians job to convince you. It is the Christians job to obey the commandment to preach the good news. It is the "holy spirit" that convicts you of sin, and gives you the faith needed to understand your need for redemption through Christ. The Christian is just a vessel used by god as a witness.

There are a handful of doctrines on hell in the church. Even Christians can't agree on it. I'm not going there.

Why be so bent on telling everyone your beliefs...or lack thereof if you continue to say you don't care what others believe? You seem to be very concerned with what others think or believe. What's the point of all this talk? We are all different. We all believe different things for different reasons. Let it go. So many viable topics to pick from. No reason to repeatedly rephrase the same opinion.

a reply to: scorpio84

Hint: If you are not familiar with the term Q source, you could not begin to start a debate with me on Christian theology. So, here's a challenge - convince me that God is real and I will become a believer. If you cannot argue with decency, then act with the humility demanded by your religion and refrain from posting on this thread.

Actually it is not a Q source but a source in German language known as Q meaning Quelle.

Quote
Q comes from the German "quelle" meaning "source." Some Biblical scholars have proposed that there was a document prior to the writing of the gospels which was used by the writers of Matthew and Luke as a source of information.1 They have called this hypothetical document "Q." It is hypothetical because there is no proof that the document existed. Nevertheless, this proposal has gained some acceptance in scholarly circles due to the very close similarities and identical written accounts found in both Matthew and Luke. It is reasoned that the very similar accounts must be taken from a common source.
Unquote
carm.org...

The first Christian synagogue which was actually the upper room of the book of Acts was located in Jerusalem and was formed with the liturgy of Aramaic and Hebrew. Greek and Latin etc. were not permitted to influence the first Jewish Christians. It was through this that it is believed by some scholars that all of the letters of the Gospels were originally penned in Aramaic and Hebrew and later translated into Greek. Tradition has insisted that Jesus must have penned something and this source is what is sought after. Even if it could be shown it would still not prove Jesus to be of any deity. Faith would still be foremost in the Christian doctrine.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

I know there are plenty of believers who are going to hell as well as non believers.

Emphasis mine.

You dont get it, not a drop

I don't think that you get the foundation of 'belief' and 'faith,' as neither leave the faithful believer with the ability to "know" anything with any certainty.

As far as the OP goes, his assertion that it's nearly impossible (although it has been done) to convince an atheist/agnostic that god exists--at least an a/a who is learned in the bible--is quite accurate. But his request to argue with decency was condemned to failure by your first response to his post, as you call him out as an ignorant liar, then don't even try to convince him with anything even remotely resembling logical discussion: "Jesus isnt [sic] theology, Jesus is love." Why? Because an old book tells you so?

"Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so..."

Yeah, sound logic in those lyrics.

So, what good does that do for your side of the argument, other than diminish its credibility as even being worthy of debate?

a reply to: Raggedyman

I didn't study theology to come out with zero knowledge on the subject. Test me.

a reply to: Kentuckymama

Seems to me he is more hellbent on challenging believers to jumpstart his belief, with a preconceived notion that they will not be able to.

I agree with him.

a reply to: Akragon

I imagine that if one convinced me that God was the only logical conclusion, I could believe. Doesn't have to be proven, per se. Anyhow, the post was to tell some bible thumpers a). we (I) don't care about their hell-threats and b). a better way to approach the issue if they're that worried about it.

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: scorpio84

The problem lies in "convincing you"....because I'm not here to convince you...no one is. Being right with God isn't about what you know or believe...it's all a matter of the heart...and no amount of "convincing" will change your heart(see the scribes and pharisees)


" I desire mercy, and not sacrifice....."
A2D

The heart pumps blood...it isn't involved in though processes.

you've been posting a lot of threads about religion lately

your next one should be about the rapture. I'm SUPER curious how Christians think it will go down - the end times. and, if they believe/hope it will happen in their life time.

I like the idea of life going on in a different dimension or something.

heaven sounds so boring....

a reply to: Joneselius

Anyone who has studied theology would know what "Q-source" refers to. It isn't that obscure. Would you also claim the term synoptic as in the synoptic gospels is "obscure?"

a reply to: Klassified

my bad....but still...my point is the same lol... thanks for the correction though...reminds me that I'm still human

A2D

originally posted by: Zhennn
a reply to: scorpio84

It is Simple,

Do you think God would show you his face?
right, if non believers actually had 100% proof god existed they would worship him.
That is why god doesn't want you, Non-believers to worship him because you have to believe it first!

I imagine there are many non-believers who don't require the full "proof" per se - just a convincing argument that leaves God as the only logical, and thus the rational, choice.

This: "god doesn't want you"

What sort of fundamentalist group that has no clue how to read the Bible do you belong to?

a reply to: scorpio84

Yes to take what I said and turn it into an anatomy lesson makes perfect sense....You knew damn well what I was referring to when I said "a matter of the heart"....don't be so hard-headed and maybe you'll go a little further...

A2D

originally posted by: Gothmog
Someone had to be there to press the big red button. The one that stated "do not touch" . The one that ignited the great expansion and brought this universe and this miserable world into existence.And God said "Let there be light..."

Why does there have to be a beginning to existence?