Provocateurs At Calais

Apologies to all for yet another Calais thread. It's an ongoing situation with potentially devastating consequences.

Police are searching for individuals who incited violence between Calais migrants and police, the French interior ministry says, after the third straight night of clashes.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Individuals incited violence. Then you'll get the lovey doveys saying it was all police brutality.

This is an element of the Calais story that needs to be ripped apart. Who are the provocateurs? When certain British activists are arrested and promptly released we have to ask if they're the spooks or spook led idiots who are creating conditions for a humanitarian disaster.

What are your thoughts? Who are the provocateurs inciting the violence at Calais?

(If you're going to link to the mad lorry driver remember to link the full length video to get his illegal, rash and life endangering actions in perspective.)

To be honest those inciting the violence could be anyone. Chances are, it's a distraction. Start a riot over here and a few people may have a better chance of jumping on some lorries while all the police and security have their backs turned.

I like the fact that there's a bunch of young men on the road and between them and the police is a woman and child. I wonder what choice they had, but it's a good way to stop a police charge!

a reply to: Kester

Dunno much about whats happening their but on we can be confident about is that if some govt or some powerful people with an agenda will in all likelihood exploit and situation to their own objectives.

Question is who are the provocateurs working for?

Cameron will talk about Britian's obligation to take these people in under some treaty which they have signed. This is not a good enough reason to take these refugees in. If the British people so want it, the servant British govt should simply unsign such treaty on the basis that they are following the wishes or the or the orders of the British people.

If the provocateurs are French people then one has to ask 'who gains?

originally posted by: Kester
It's an ongoing situation with potentially devastating consequences.

Dramatic much?

"The jungle" exists since 2002 and there has always been problem with it. Nothing new under the sun. No dramatic consequences its a refugee camp. The only ones suffering from the situation are them.

I love how ATS can't stop talking about it right now because they have nothing else to discuss and just copy-paste the latest tabloid news.

Where now?

Calais reminds me more and more of the movie "World War Z".

3-4k desperate Migrants there, diseases starting to spread. Police completely overwhelmed and the rest of the gov does n t even have a plan what to do about the situation.

And this in the middle of our so called first world.

a reply to: svetlana84

To be fair they do have a plan, or several, and the inhabitants of the camp, living under mafia rule and misled by fake activists, are resisting attempts to help. The attempts to build heated accommodation have been met with opposition. Offers to apply for asylum are largely ignored. Wellingtons are not worn in spite of the obvious health advantages. The camp mafia forbid the use of cameras in much of the camp so no documentation exists. After all the effort we've made to safeguard ourselves from state oppression by having cameras everywhere, suddenly the camp is where censorship strikes deepest.

originally posted by: svetlana843-4k desperate Migrants there,

Desperate to get into a country that does not want them. They should take the hint and go somewhere else.

you would think hollande after the attacks on paris would clamp down on unlawfullness in his country.

he should of learnt his lessons and needs to clamp down on this or it will end up biting him.
you know this camp should be moved from the uk border.
how many threads about this camp are you going to post you know it shouldn't be there but hollande being the snake he is
allows it in this location,they will keep trying to sneak in they will continue to create problems untill hollande man's up and address's this..

again kester hollande needs to sort this instead of ignoring it.

a reply to: stuthealien
I see you point. Per the article:

Problems were worsened by the arrival of more than 850,000 migrants in Europe, many making the treacherous journey across the Mediterranean to flee humanitarian disasters in Africa and the Middle East.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... orcing-desperate-attempts-sneak-Britain.html#ixzz3shXZn56m 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Where are they going to flee to after they have created the humanitarian disaster in Europe and elsewhere?

Anyone that thinks you can dump this many people in mass into any area peacefully, is not thinking.

A lot of this has nothing to do with race, culture, or even being different. Ask anyone that has ever moved to a small town, and having been raised in a mi!itary family, and having been in the military myself, I can attest to the fact that moving into any established community comes with its challenges. Even if you are met with a welcoming party, you are not going to be truly welcomed, and truly accepted as a member of the community until you have paid your dues. You kind of feel you are a member, pretty much when everyone knows your name, and they call you by your name, instead of, "You know her." "She is one those new people that moved in down the street 3 years ago."

I lived in a beautiful town called White Bear. The people and the police department were wonderful. One of best places I have ever lived, but when I was transferred, after living there for 5 years, I was still referred to as the new neighbor.

You can't expected a peaceful and well functioning community when you place huge numbers of strangers in one place, even if they speak the same language and share the same culture, without it being an enterprise taken on by the community itself. Even then it will have its own set of problems. But having these numbers just show up, or dumped on a community, is nothing but a recipe for disaster, and anyone promoting this is a provocateur.

a reply to: paraphi
I had no idea how bad it was there till recently.
Saw this yesterday.


This is everyday life for truck drivers going through Calais?

I read somewhere that the drivers are find $2,000 per immigrant that manages to hide on their trucks.
Insanity.
The immigrant then goes free.

And if anyone complains they are 'intolerant' bigots. Notice all the attackers are young men??

And all because these 'immigrants don't want asylum in France? They live like this because they want to illegally enter the UK??

Why don't they deport every person that attacks these trucks?

ETA: Anyone care to translate what this guy was talking about? I can guess if I was in that situation.......

a reply to: Azureblue

I am British, and I do not want refugees to be turned away at our borders, given how much of the geopolitical circumstances which lead to their arrival at Calais are the fault of my governments actions over the last twenty years.

a reply to: TrueBrit
I don't understand why you fill this way. If your family member committed a crime, would think it fair that you be placed in prison to serve their time?

If the citizens of Britain or the US are supposed to be held responsible and accountabe for every sin our governments have committed in the past, and even now, the ME would have to stand in line. There are other groups of people that would warrant the keys to your home and cars, that should be served first.

I don't justify their crimes, ancient or present, and I think I am a!ready being punished for all!owing myself to be deceived. I am I not willing to go so far as to give up hearth and home, no matter how selfish this may make others think I am.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I tend to agree with you

Refugees are not migrants ... they are people like you and I ... caught up in a bad situation.
Any decent society / human being would give shelter to those in need.

Given hospitality and honouring your guests was the way of old in Britain

But yes ... Some abuse hospitality ...
It is not beyond the bounds of possibility ... that some with ill intent can use the situation to their advantage
But we must not get our "Knickers in a twist" and become suspicious and paranoid of every stranger /guest

a reply to: stosh64
I know how frustrating that can be. My job used to take me to a pretty rough part of town a couple times a month. The teens in the area were convinced they were invincible and would deliberately walk down the middle of the street holding up traffic, and making a general nuisance of themselves.

I was so angry at a group of them one day I called the police. The police came and dispersed them for a few minutes. I was so angry, I asked them if I would get in trouble if I just pushed them away with my car, not to hurt them in any way, just to make them move. He told me if I touched them with my moving car, they would sue me and would win. He said even if I didn't do any damage to them at all, they would still win.

I said so, they can just hold traffic whenever they choose, make a general nuisance, bump into my car, and sue me, and nothing is done about it. He said they are juveniles and they are limited in what they can do without the parent's support and said that is something they rarely get.

So I get it. I know the anger, the frustration and the feelings of betrayal and helplessness.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I am not talking about crimes of decades past alone here. Four years ago the members of the coalition which went into Iraq and Afghanistan during the War on Terror, were still arming rebel groups in the Middle East for the purpose of toppling undesirable leaders and installing new governments, despite warnings from anyone with an ounce of sense that it was a bloody stupid idea.

I am not speaking of uniquely historical stupidity here, but issues which directly effect the situation in which the world finds itself today.

You might not be willing to take responsibility for the results of the actions of our elected representatives, but someone has to, and the homelessness that those actions have caused needs to be addressed. I have been without a home. I have been without warmth, without comfort, without a place to wash in private. No one wanted to help me, or even acknowledge my predicament, until a person I knew offered me a space on the floor of her jail cell sized room out the back of a pub I used to frequent. I did not put myself in that situation, I was pushed into it.

Now, there is nothing I can do to influence the past, nothing I can do to give these refugees their home back. But what I can do is put my vote behind anyone who wants to see these people protected from the effects of our nations foreign policy. Our leaders had no right to do what they did to these people, their nations, their families and their lives. We cannot solve that for them. But we can offer them a place to stay while they process their grief, offer them comfort after the horrors they have lived through, care for them, and protect them. It is the least we can do, given that we paid our tax money to a government which used that money to destroy their lives with missiles, with payments and armaments for rebel groups.

This IS our responsibility, whether you care to admit it to yourself, or not.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Azureblue

I am British, and I do not want refugees to be turned away at our borders, given how much of the geopolitical circumstances which lead to their arrival at Calais are the fault of my governments actions over the last twenty years.

They can register and claim asylum in France and receive UN standard refugee care including housing, welfare, and health care. They refuse because they wish to enter the UK. Living in that squalor is their choice solely.

You may wish to take anyone who wishes to seek asylum in the UK but the overwhelming majority of refugees speak English as a second language so if you advocate as Merkel did "Open the doors to all!" then the overwhelming majority will enter the UK.
Try considering the situation without being clouded by your emotions, opening the gates to all English language speaking asylum seekers would result in millions coming here, how could you possibly argue differently?

I thank # that the UK still retains control over the tunnel UK border on the French side, and I thank # you are not Prime Minister, just a misguided compassionate voice on the internet gathering stars from your equally misguided and emotional followers.

a reply to: TrueBrit
I can understand why you feel the way you do, I just don't agree with your logic, but we don't have to agree.

If you asked me for money to help you out, and I gave you fifty dollars. If you took that money, bought a gun and killed a bunch of people. I would not consider myself responsible for your actions. I would be willing to accept responsibility, if you had told me beforehand what you were planning to to do with the money, or had ask my permission to attack the people you killed.

But we can offer them a place to stay while they process their grief, offer them comfort after the horrors they have lived through, care for them, and protect them. It is the least we can do, given that we paid our tax money to a government which used that money to destroy their lives with missiles, with payments and armaments for rebel groups.

My government didn't collaborate with me on what they were going to do with my tax payer dollars, and I didn't give them my permission to destroy anybody's life with missiles.

I think it unfair to all concerned to put the people who were genuinely affected by their actions,through such hardships, when they are completely unnecessary. Provisions can be made by the offending governments, without making the refugees go through a mass Exodus, on foot through numerous countries, to arrive in a place that is unaware, unequipped, has no accommodations, and no funding to accommodate them. A place where the citizens are already struggling, and while they would normally be more than happy to help, they grow bitter when they can't share the food on their table because the food and the table have been taken away.

It is not the responsibility of the people to make reparations to the refugees. If we can't control our out of control rogue governments, it is not going to get better for us if we don't at least try to hold them accountable for their own actions.

This IS our responsibility, whether you care to admit it to yourself, or not.

I am sure you have some choice words for me, and it is okay, because I am not taking ownership of that responsibility.

It is a tradition that has been passed down through my family going back generations, that we never let anyone leave our doorstep hungry. My grandmother back during the Great Depression would throw another potato and a cup of water into the soup, to feed any unexpected persons that showed up at the door. But even she couldn't make fish and loaves appear out of thin air, or turn water into wine.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Azureblue

I am British, and I do not want refugees to be turned away at our borders, given how much of the geopolitical circumstances which lead to their arrival at Calais are the fault of my governments actions over the last twenty years.

I dunno why you feel any responsibility for your govts actions. iIf you think they represent the views of the mass of Britons your mistaken. The two party system is there to give the illusion of choice, both parties box you into choices they give you, both of them are are owned and controlled by the same people which are certainly not you. The two parties are just the two wings of the same bird of prey.

The masses might get to select the pilot but they sure as christ don't decide the flight plan.

All the negatives associated with these immigrants are only going to be felt by you, not by the politicians.

It does not matter how much blow back their is on the govt of the time it will never consign them to the rubbish bins of popularity, The Powers That Should Not Be will always see to that.

You have a hord of desperados who are lawless faithless criminals

Someone wants to release this hord into France to cause unrest

New recruits for their terrorist activities
Willing to kill for money

My money is on Russia
Russia put them there
Russia organized the rubber boats in greese
Russia is the one puting strain on western Europe before he invades

Russian agents are organizing a breakout

Flood France with refugees