Serious Debate c. 1975: Monty Python guys vs CoE guys (talk show)

Hi, all.

I discovered on YouTube (just browsing) a debate from a late-night type talk show, where John Cleese and Michael Palin are vs a Bishop (maybe an Arch?) and a scholar apologist, on BBCFour.

It took place in (I'm guesstimating) the 70s. Monty Python (of Holy Grail fame) had released a new movie about the Incarnation (a parody).
These church guys debate with them about what social impact the film might have.

It interested me because I was brought up with Monty Python - Fawlty Towers was one of the series we watched as a family....
yet, I was raised in the Church of England (Episcopalian).

In my youth, you see, I was exposed to both - an open-minded approach as well as a fairly rigorous religious training.
I thought, if I posted this, it could shed some light on some of us regulars on the board here....

and help the bewildered to understand where we are coming from regarding "Organized Religion", the Bible, our upbringing and skepticism....

(and maybe offer a break from the tension going on in the world right now? Or at least some more insight as this bonfire gets bigger). This is from 40 years ago, ladies and gentlemen....it isn't yesterday or last year - it stems from the upbringing of the Baby Boomers....
some got Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker; others got Monty Python's Flying Circus and other irreverant comedies (my mom was a very involved Episcopalian - even the acolyte 'mother' - my brothers were acolytes, I was in the choir, all of it.)

Maybe this can help us Americans with the infighting going on around religion, for us to sit back and watch an early episode that discusses a topic that is all too pertinent today.

I give you:





(And by the way, John Cleese is currently making the late-night and talk-show rounds.....new book out. )

I must admit that I never thought Life of Brian was offensive.
For one thing, I accept the point that Jesus is a separate character in the film.
For another, "He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy" comes close to being a verbatim gospel quotation.
And finally, the film is also brilliantly satirical against cliquey left-wing politics (British style). Anyone who attacks the lefties can be forgiven much.

On the other hand, "Welease Wodewick" hits me in a senstive area. I hate that bit.

a reply to: DISRAELI

This debate was held apparently due to a newly released film on the Incarnation.
I have not seen that film, but Monty Python and the Holy Grail I have nearly memorized, and I own the entire Fawlty Towers series on DVD.

Have you seen these debates, DISRAELI? I don't know if you're into watching religion vs secular debates, but I know other members enjoy watching them.

The topics in this debate range from unchurched teenagers having this as their first exposure to Jesus, to what exactly is being lampooned, to whether or not it is destructive rubbish or worthwhile social commentary.

If you're bored or whatever - it's safely behind us that I think we can watch it and have a finger-to-chin moment to reflect on how not much has changed.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I think its kinda funny that the one guy keeps on hammering the idea that a "young person" can and will look at the movie and think that this is an actual truth and or history of Jesus in any way, shape or form.

IF you want to actually learn about something, you don't go to a comedy bit or satire of something to find the truth of it

You go to the source...

But with the stupidity of this world it somehow wouldn't surprise me that people might take such things as fact

a reply to: Akragon

Right? Yeah, the avocado corduroy jacket guy uses such great adjectives - talking about if historians in the future "dredge up this miserable little film", "little squalid number", "too 10th-rate"

I love when John says, "yeah yeah, we know it's rubbish.... but what about this serious question? Is there anything that would change your mind?"

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
The film they're talking about is "Life of Brian".
The B.B.C. (I think) was celebrating some sort of anniversary of that discussion a year or two back.
As far as I remember, they not only re-broadcast the debate, but also broadcast a documentary about the episode AND a dramatised version of the story from the Python viewpoint. I didn't watch any of them all the way through, but saw snatches.

I spent most of that decade having no access to television, so I never saw the original.

Well John Cleese, family surname Cheese has a lot of ex wives and thus needs the money

But theres a different view in the UK than the US in that over here in blighty its fine to actually challenge your priest and my RE teacher was very unhappy that i didn't take up RE as i was very able to see and discuss such matters at school and i miss her.

we find the truth about things by questioning things and just accepting some sky god did it all 6000 years or so ago and thus put up and shut up but a lot of the people who moved over to the US at the start were those who wanted to be able to practice their faith as they saw it even if it made no sense.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Oh! Okay- yes, I've seen Life of Brian, but need to watch it again.

Are you familiar with The Search for the Holy Grail ?

The end where they ding "always look on the bright side of life is fantastic and a song used at many a funeral to comfort loved ones and add some humanity to what can be an impersonal humourless event.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

Are you familiar with The Search for the Holy Grail ?

Do you mean Monty Python and the Holy Grail?

I've just realised that what you have is two short extracts.
Try the full version.



P.S. There seems to be a short glitch at the beginning. I assume this was a production hitch on a live programme.
P.P.S.The civilian next to the bishop is the well-known journalist Malcolm Muggeridge, satirised in Private Eye under the name "St.Mugg".

a reply to: Maxatoria

I hear ya!!!!

I was born here because my parents fled from all that and were in Penn's fleet!

My mom is an anglophile, too - and she was devout from childhood (not prompted by her parents, either) - she gave us a very solid Episcopalian foundation. But there was never a closed door to learning more. She left the church about 20 years ago - she's now 75.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yes, but the full title is "Monty Python and the SearchQuest For the Holy Grail."

I have an original movie poster. A llama gave it to me.
Yeah, anyway - it's Quest I think........
or......
*goes to check*
GASP!!! I'm wrong! The title is just 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail'.


Maybe the 'quest' bit is from the intro scene????

Oh well. In any case,

a reply to: DISRAELI

Good to know!!!

Thanks for the link!

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

Yes, but the full title is "Monty Python and the Search For the Holy Grail."

I have an original movie poster. A llama gave it to me.

Interesting. I have seen the ones where it is 'quest for' but I never saw the 'search for'. That must be a rare copy.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Nah, I probably got it wrong.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Well, at least you like and get the movie, that is all that matters.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I'm watching your link now...
so

you said it didn't offend you - I'd really like to hear why it doesn't.....
(yes, I read your OPs)

But wait

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
I think I answered that in my first reply.
Basically, because I fully accept their point that the film is not centred upon Jesus and that Jesus is a quite separate character from the title character.
Brian is really an accidental "false" messiah, so it is the "false messiahs" who are being satirised.