The Origins Conspiracy, A Master Deception!

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: TzarChasm

What do you think ?
I have taken several IQ tests over he years nothing on origins is ever in them, but you knew that already.

In that case any iq tests anyone has done doesn't have anything to do with origins. Critical thinking, problem solving, maths, all the tests on the iq test doesn't mean you're right or wrong about what's being said about the origins debate.

Yes but a person with a 144 IQ has more weight to their opinion than a person with 75 IQ, you can't say it doesn't make a difference. And their are a lot of brilliant people with high IQ that believe in evolution, some of them are right here on ATS, they have posted in my threads

I'm not sure if this is a tongue in cheek way of you claiming you have a 144 IQ but for the love of all that is holy, you're citing an online test. a proper IQ test must be conducted by a live human being who evaluates your personal reactions in conjunction with your answers. Online IQ tests are, in my ever humble opinion, the equivalent of junk mail. It still shows up in the mail box, you still walk across the street to retrieve it and some people even read it. But when all is said and done it winds up in the garbage and not mixed in with your holiday greeting cards for a reason. because its worthless compared to the real mail you receive. Furthermore, if we're playing the smarter than so and so game, I'll take Stephen Hawkings opinion on cosmology over the results of a quack online quiz show...


In response to a question about what came bvefore the Big Bang and whether god could have created it all...

...the question itself makes no sense. Time did not exist before the big bang, so there is no time for god to make the universe in. It's like asking directions to the edge of the Earth. The Earth is a sphere-- it doesn't have an edge, so looking for it is a futile exercise. We are each free to believe what we want, and my view is that the simplest explanation is that there is no god. No one created the universe and no one directs our fate. This leads me to a profound realization: there is probably no heaven and no afterlife either. We have this one life to appreciate the grand design of the universe and for that I am extremely grateful

But there are some very intelligent people that believe in creation as well, from all walks of life, calling them stupid and ignorant because they have faith in God is pretty arrogant, a difference in opinion should not define our perception of a persons intelligence.

It's not a difference of opinion or based on their belief in god though. it's the ignorance they perpetuate for others to eat up based on confirmation biases. There is no science supporting a creationist world view, particularly Young Earth Creationism. Promoting those ideals and claiming science supports it when they know that most of their folowers aren't smart enough to know the difference or check the facts, or worse yet, willfully ignorant and refuse to check facts, is just wrong, its ignorant and its abhorrent.

But it does for many. I would never call an evolutionist stupid for what they believe, I think the theory is bunk, but I don't think people who believe it are.

If the shoe fits, then call a spade a spade. There are many dumb people who support evolution blindly too. If you see that, call them out. Same goes true for the other side of the spectrum. If I see someone say or repeat tripe with no basis in fact, I'm going to call them on their bull. Just like I will with you for the fact that you use the term evolutionist which was created by Creationist proponents to slander those who understand science is not much different than calling them stupid. You're certainly entitled to your opinions but to ignore and dispute science comes off as odd.

Here is why, you can be deceived with even perfect intelligence, as was the very first woman, Eve.

And that comment alone destroys any argument you have in favor of your own critical thinking skills, based on an online test with no controls. But hey... people all over the world have taken it so it has to be legit amirite? Anyway... your attribution of perfect intelligence(whatever it is you think that means) isn't in scripture. That's your own take on it. If you were a true critical thinker, you wouldn't just throw out unsubstantiated material.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: Barcs

Even if you scored the same as me in that test, which you might, then what......
The bottom line is a difference of opinion between to opposite perspectives of equal analytical intelligence on a human conceptual theory.
My analytical reasoning is sound and intelligent, and has been tested.

And the people taking this test are from all over the world not any one nation.

Come on, Blue Jay. We all know anybody could easily copy that from anybody who took the test and posted their results. And even if it's true, that doesn't make your opinion more or less valid. If you want to prove your analytical thinking skills, then actually USE THEM instead of posting a useless screen shot. ANALYZE evolution and break it down for us. Show us that you aren't just making it all up from creationist blogs.

I have asked you numerous times to use your self proclaimed analytical thinking skills to explain the issues with evolutionary evidence and you NEVER DO IT. You don't analyze anything. You instead choose to attack it with straw mans, fallacies, redefining terminology to suit your agenda, flat out denial, misunderstandings, and also blatant lies about evolution. I asked you why you deny evolution and you said that you believe the bible because Jesus said so in the bible. Surely, I'm not the only one that notices this blatant hypocrisy and complete LACK of analytical thinking?

But there are some very intelligent people that believe in creation as well, from all walks of life, calling them stupid and ignorant because they have faith in God is pretty arrogant, a difference in opinion should not define our perception of a persons intelligence. But it does for many.

It's not about believing creation or god. It's about blindly dismissing science and acting like your personal un-researched opinion holds any kind of weight in academia or in this "debate". This directly counters any type of high intelligence. Plenty of smart people believe in god. But they aren't the ones going around denying science without reason and acting like they know more about a topic than scientists that have studied it for decades.

Evolution is NOT an opinion debate. Religion / subject of god IS.

My analytical reasoning is sound and intelligent, and has been tested.

Then demonstrate it for us and break down the evidence behind evolution instead of pretending you are smarter than everyone else and bragging about irrelevant test results when it's obvious you have never even attempted to research evolution. The ball is in your court. Time to put up or shut up. Use your superior intellect and debunk us.

a reply to: Barcs

See Barcs if you took 1000 people with an 144 IQ that believed in evolution, and these people thoroughly studied biology, cosmology and abiogenesis. Then you had another 1000 people that were on the other side believing in creation they too had 144 IQ and throughly studied those same subjects. And within both groups each person was asked to write a 10 page report on why they believe what they do based on science, both sides would make excellent intelligent arguments , but both sides would view the other side as just wrong. Thus the impasse.....thus our impasse.

Until the next thread.....

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

One side has evidence, the other does not. Case closed,

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: Barcs

See Barcs if you took 1000 people with an 144 IQ that believed in evolution, and these people thoroughly studied biology, cosmology and abiogenesis. Then you had another 1000 people that were on the other side believing in creation they too had 144 IQ and throughly studied those same subjects. And within both groups each person was asked to write a 10 page report on why they believe what they do based on science, both sides would make excellent intelligent arguments , but both sides would view the other side as just wrong. Thus the impasse.....thus our impasse.

Until the next thread.....

I've highlighted the one part of your previous post that needs addressing.

Religion isn't built on science. You can't verify religion with science. As yet there has been no scientific discoveries to prove God exists.

So, with SCIENCE, prove evolution is wrong and the only answer is god.

I await your scientific proof.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: Barcs

See Barcs if you took 1000 people with an 144 IQ that believed in evolution, and these people thoroughly studied biology, cosmology and abiogenesis. Then you had another 1000 people that were on the other side believing in creation they too had 144 IQ and throughly studied those same subjects. And within both groups each person was asked to write a 10 page report on why they believe what they do based on science, both sides would make excellent intelligent arguments , but both sides would view the other side as just wrong. Thus the impasse.....thus our impasse.

And here I thought you were going to demonstrate your top notch analytical thinking skills and were going to school us. Instead more of the same unsubstantiated hogwash. Here's the glaring difference. The evolution deniers on ATS, including you, have not even studied the very basics of evolution. If they had studied it, they wouldn't be denying it, so your example is bogus as usual. Just because 2000 intelligent people have a debate, doesn't mean it will be equal.

There are no good arguments against evolution. I've NEVER heard one and I've been posting here for like a decade. Every single one is based on misunderstanding of how it works. If the deniers can't rely on these fallacies and misunderstanding, they have no argument. What if 2000 intelligent people debated the existence of fairies? Do you think both sides would make great arguments?

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: Barcs

See Barcs if you took 1000 people with an 144 IQ that believed in evolution, and these people thoroughly studied biology, cosmology and abiogenesis. Then you had another 1000 people that were on the other side believing in creation they too had 144 IQ and throughly studied those same subjects. And within both groups each person was asked to write a 10 page report on why they believe what they do based on science, both sides would make excellent intelligent arguments , but both sides would view the other side as just wrong. Thus the impasse.....thus our impasse.

Until the next thread.....

Actually I think the majority of the "creationist" side would probably slip over to the other side...

One side has evidence... the other side has a book, and a huge slice of Dogma

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Phage is correct regarding the ouija board.

The phenomenon is called the ideomotor effect. see here"
(Although for the religious minded, keep in mind the bible also mentions "powers and principalities")

A2D

Phage is not correct regarding the ouija board.

The ideomotor effect is just an attempt by skeptics to come up with a logical explanation for things.

It's like swamp gas and the planet venus in the ufo field, it all sounds great but under closer inspection doesn't stand up at all.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: TzarChasm

What do you think ?
I have taken several IQ tests over he years nothing on origins is ever in them, but you knew that already.

In that case any iq tests anyone has done doesn't have anything to do with origins. Critical thinking, problem solving, maths, all the tests on the iq test doesn't mean you're right or wrong about what's being said about the origins debate.

Yes but a person with a 144 IQ has more weight to their opinion than a person with 75 IQ, you can't say it doesn't make a difference. And their are a lot of brilliant people with high IQ that believe in evolution, some of them are right here on ATS, they have posted in my threads

But there are some very intelligent people that believe in creation as well, from all walks of life, calling them stupid and ignorant because they have faith in God is pretty arrogant, a difference in opinion should not define our perception of a persons intelligence. But it does for many. I would never call an evolutionist stupid for what they believe, I think the theory is bunk, but I don't think people who believe it are.
Here is why, you can be deceived with even perfect intelligence, as was the very first woman, Eve.

do those brilliant people believe that satan personally taught the theory of evolution to charles darwin?

extraordinary eclaims require extraordinary evidence, and so far all i have seen are the results of an internet quiz. come on bluejay, give us a real challenge if you want to post provocative threads.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: Barcs

See Barcs if you took 1000 people with an 144 IQ that believed in evolution, and these people thoroughly studied biology, cosmology and abiogenesis. Then you had another 1000 people that were on the other side believing in creation they too had 144 IQ and throughly studied those same subjects. And within both groups each person was asked to write a 10 page report on why they believe what they do based on science, both sides would make excellent intelligent arguments , but both sides would view the other side as just wrong. Thus the impasse.....thus our impasse.

Until the next thread.....

why dont we test that hypothesis?

Let me paraphrase "I know everything and nobody can question me about anything, I am the supreme knowledge"

You mean like the OP and every other religious person on this site?

Seriously, "hypnotized as a child by satan?" How could anyone believe something so ridiculous?

originally posted by: CB328

Let me paraphrase "I know everything and nobody can question me about anything, I am the supreme knowledge"

You mean like the OP and every other religious person on this site?
Seriously, "hypnotized as a child by satan?" How could anyone believe something so ridiculous?

God is Satan; (allows for all things) an amalgam (the same thing allows Itself to BE as a negative form) what is the problem? Its all balanced and polarized to make sense of this system. The universe will balance all of this; you are not a player.

a reply to: jamespond

The ideomotor effect is demonstrable and physiologically measurable....how does it not hold up to any scrutiny? The psychological medical community has numerous and well documented studies concerning the effect...there are even youtube videos that will show you how YOU can feel it for yourself...such as this one

If you don't mind, could you debunk it for me?

A2D

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

Cannot be debunked as no one knows what is going on within the mind of the infinite.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

what do you mean no one knows what's going on? the ideomotor effect is....unless of course, someone can debunk it.

A2D

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: vethumanbeing

what do you mean no one knows what's going on? the ideomotor effect is....unless of course, someone can debunk it.
A2D

My odometer 'Ideameter" is set to finally KILL infinity/SPACE (me as the Absolute) overlay this idea so missed "that which is still relevant (hidden)" and multiply it to exact sums. Actually, Infinity is my friend; it describes me. I just overlay ideas upon its space/time and it allows for this. It is a good handshake. I am Mind/Consciousness it is the empty Infinite Space I can overlay my ideas upon. The reason I can do this is I have the WILL and the desire to do so (these are strong forces) that no one understands physically (because much of this is based upon human thought form) inconsequential.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

You lost me bud. No idea what any of that means.

A2D

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Agre2Disagree:You lost me bud. No idea what any of that means.
A2D

There is a war between the Absolute (cosmic mind) and the Infinite (all space available) is all. It is a conceptual war no one is supposed to know about; so your thought of not having any idea of this fits the parameters. I have the desire/will and wish to express myself. Infinity has the space in which I can do so; we are having a problem in negotiation is all as how I WILL express myself within infinities limits (NO LIMITS IS THE PROBLEM as its INFINITY) So finally has to define parameters and work with the Absolute. Stubborn.

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: vethumanbeing

You lost me bud. No idea what any of that means.

A2D

You do not understand 'subtle energy'.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I suppose I can concede that point. I've always liked you vet, but it's hard sometimes to understand what you're trying to say.

A2D