It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Did you miss my links where ONLY he was able to get those results?? No other lab/test ever produced similar results. It seems to me that Dr. Bem here produced data, which is not very scientific of him.
On contrary, as Dr. Sagan once has said - extraordinary claim require extraordinary evidence... which Dr. Bem failed to provide.
And once no one could replicate his experiments... what then? World is full of 'new age' scientist, some of them making big bucks by selling para-science to masses... If you don't trust me, check Dr. Chopra's net worth... People are buying into this just because they like to believe there is something 'more'.... but as you can see, experiments just prove there is not...
You're missing big pictures... nobody except Dr Bemmy was able to replicate his experiments... and that is enough for me and rest of the world...
Sorry, but that is just how science works...
This reminds me of teachers believing that full moon effects kids in school - which is proven wrong (there is actually a study and someone even did PhD on the topic) and still if you ask majority of teachers... they will tell you it does...
originally posted by: TechniXcality
I'm upset this sounded so promising! I too felt cautious even saying anything, just because there's not a lot if any reproducible evidence and so i optimistically wait, intuitively know what is already true. Factually having to deny its reality : /
originally posted by: SuperFrog
A failed experiment is - A failed experiment...
Sources:
This has nothing to do with science, as it is actually debunked. Sure, Dr. Bem has impressive bios, but his research is not worth anything as long as it is not repeatable.
Anything 'new' from him is just not worth the time or space here.
originally posted by: Agartha
Yes, you are correct, unfortunately it is a failed experiment as other scientists in three different universities were not able to replicate it... I was just coming to post exactly what you posted, I'm so disappointed.... oh well, maybe one day someone will be born with a 'super power'... I think I have watched too many XMen movies! lol
skepdic.com...
originally posted by: SuperFrog
Did you miss my links where ONLY he was able to get those results?? No other lab/test ever produced similar results. It seems to me that Dr. Bem here produced data, which is not very scientific of him.
Sorry, but that is just how science works...
This reminds me of teachers believing that full moon effects kids in school - which is proven wrong (there is actually a study and someone even did PhD on the topic) and still if you ask majority of teachers... they will tell you it does...
originally posted by: FlyingFox
If it were true, casinos would have went out of business long ago.
originally posted by: theantediluvian
I did read the stories at both links. The articles are specifically about two groups replicating his experiments; Chris French, Stuart Ritchie and Richard Wiseman in the first article and Jeff Galak, Robyn LeBoeuf, Leif D. Nelson and Joseph P. Simmons in the second (the group whose experiments I referenced in my last two posts).
I don't know how you arrived at "No other lab/test ever produced similar results" based on reading the linked articles (or even the papers they reference). Your statements aren't supported by either and of course, the topic of this thread is the just published meta-analysis of a total of 90 experiments in which Bem and co-authors assert that various statistical analyses reveal variations beyond mere chance that are in-line with those initially reported by Bem. It would be perhaps more useful to read the paper and let he and his co-authors make that case for themselves.
Either way, you got the meaning, right?
originally posted by: theantediluvian
Not to nitpick but Sagan was quoting Marcello Truzzi.
originally posted by: theantediluvian
Daryl Bem isn't playing New Age guru to celebrities and pitching paperback supermarket checkout fodder so I'm not really sure why you feel the need to smear him by comparing him to the likes of Deepak Chopra. I'm not saying that he's correct but the man is engaged in legitimate scientific inquiry, a fact that isn't lessened by your opinion of the subject matter.
You seem to be emotionally attached to a position which precludes objectivity. If you think that's "how science works" then you're wrong. I'm all for calling woo what it is and being brutally skeptical but I'm also open to considering new information and updating my beliefs when necessary. I personally remained unconvinced but I think it's an interesting idea and worthy of continued study.
I'm sure there's been more than one study and why not? Ever heard of circadian rhythm? Seasonal affective disorder? I'd be highly skeptical that there'd be any link between lunar cycles and behavior excepting perhaps abnormal human psychology (clinical lycanthropy) and indirect effects such as variations in ambient light correlating to increases/decreases in crime rates (are people more likely to steal on a moonless night out of less fear of discovery or perhaps the opposite or maybe neither?) but just because something seems like lunacy () doesn't mean it can't be studied scientifically.
We here report a meta-analysis of 90 experiments from 33 laboratories in 14 countries which yielded an overall effect greater than 6 sigma, z = 6.40, p = 1.2 × 10-10 with an effect size (Hedges’ g) of 0.09.
originally posted by: SuperFrog
Exactly what you said - 90 experiments in which Bem and co-authors statistics worked, while all other tries did not produce those results. It is just funny that he was able to 'produce' results that support his claim, ask others to do, and now that all other research show his research being flawed, you trying to grasp a straw.
Only people who are attached emotional to this research are the one believing there must be something - wishful thinking, and you are right, that is not how science works.
Dr. Bem made a claim, since then all research to reproduce his claim have failed, yet he continues to brings more on previous flawed claim?!
This is actually funny... and as someone mentioned, casinos would run out of business by now...
originally posted by: Agartha
The overall effect of 90 studies is 0.09 g.... isn't that really small?
originally posted by: Agartha
Also (still taking data from the meta-analysis) we have 90 experiments, 33 labs, 14 countries and only 18 studies had good results (to prove precognition) whilst 72 didn't.... doesn't this show once again that the results are not really controversial and that they can't really prove precognition?
originally posted by: Agartha
Even ignoring the failed replication experiments and the bias I can see in both 'teams', I still think the results are not good enough to convince anybody with this data alone.
Like I said before, I'd love to prove precognition is real, but Bem's results are not convincing evidence.
Stanford Scientist: Vast, Powerful Realm Between Particles Influenced by Human Consciousness
In Beyond Science, Epoch Times explores research and accounts related to phenomena and theories that challenge our current knowledge. We delve into ideas that stimulate the imagination and open up new possibilities. Share your thoughts with us on these sometimes controversial topics in the comments section below.
Stanford University Professor Emeritus William A. Tiller has been researching a level of physical reality hitherto undetectable with conventional measurement instruments.
He says two kinds of substances exist:
1. The electric atom/molecule level: Substances on this level can be measured with traditional instruments. We can measure them because they are electric-charge based.
2. The magnetic information waves level: Tiller explains in an introduction to his research on his website: “This new level of substance, because it appears to function in the physical vacuum (the empty space between the fundamental electric particles that make up our normal electric atoms and molecules), is currently invisible to us and to our traditional measurement instruments.”
This second type of substance has great power, and it is affected by human thought.
...
Your Thoughts Can Release Abilities beyond Normal Limits
Better vision, stronger muscles—expectations can have surprising effects, research finds
By Ozgun Atasoy | August 13, 2013
There seems to be a simple way to instantly increase a person’s level of general knowledge. Psychologists Ulrich Weger and Stephen Loughnan recently asked two groups of people to answer questions. People in one group were told that before each question, the answer would be briefly flashed on their screens — too quickly to consciously perceive, but slow enough for their unconscious to take it in. The other group was told that the flashes simply signaled the next question. In fact, for both groups, a random string of letters, not the answers, was flashed. But, remarkably, the people who thought the answers were flashed did better on the test. Expecting to know the answers made people more likely to get the answers right.
...
Quantum Theory Demonstrated: Observation Affects Reality
Date:
February 27, 1998
Source:
Weizmann Institute Of Science
Summary:
One of the most bizarre premises of quantum theory, which has long fascinated philosophers and physicists alike, states that by the very act of watching, the observer affects the observed reality.
REHOVOT, Israel, February 26, 1998--One of the most bizarre premises of quantum theory, which has long fascinated philosophers and physicists alike, states that by the very act of watching, the observer affects the observed reality.
...