Atheists object to Christmas toy drive on Air Force base – and win

And once again: Had the office of the squadron commander forwarded an email from the Jehovah's Witnesses saying "Join us in teaching little children that their salvation depends on knowing Jesus doesn't like Christmas" everyone would instantly see what's going on here.

a reply to: burntheships

Nope, your hyperbole doesn't resemble anything that anyone has said here.

Please review the thread as well as the US Constitution, Amendment I.

After a night to think about it....

I dont think the Secretary did anything wrong... may have been in poor taste... but violated nadda.

The 14 Airmen that went outside the military to complain on the other hand... oh yea they were wrong, and they are going to be unofficially punished for it and deserve to be.

Ive got 18 yrs military, 3 yrs Federal service, never remember a briefing saying dont say anything religious in your email... dont send porn I remember.

6 months is probably the longest I ever went without receiving something to do with religion in my email... usually from the chaplains... occasionally from “that” guy that has to preach non stop.

Know what I did... hit delete and went about my day like an adult... I weep for the future of the USAF... if airmen are so thin skinned now.. how are they going to handle the stress when it hits the fan.

I am not overly religious.. never made any secret of that, never had any pressure in the air force to be religious so not sure why some people in this thread have said the Airforce has a problem with pushing religion. (though I did take great delight in telling my more religious co-workers I am a catholic married to a witch... watching their fuzzy little heads explode was hysterical)

My wife on the other hand has caught some flak periodically over the years being a pagan... she took the other adult approach...sitting down and having an open discussion about religion with the person... worst outcome has been she became friends with them... best outcome she converted them.

Thats what we need to do... TALK... stop hiring lawyers because your feeling are hurt and talk to each other like adults..

I would be interested if those 14 airmen did that... did they talk to the secretary... or the commander, or the first sgt, or the chief, or the chaplains office, or the IG office.... or life skills... or another sqaudrons leadership if they felt they couldnt talk to theirs..

I am heading out now to go do a HHH run with a guy whos entire career has been to maintain computers in the Air Force, I am going to ask him about this “ethics” violation.

originally posted by: murphy22
a reply to: Shamrock6
No, you don't have to read it, you just "open it". Then delete. It's not rocket science or that hard to push a button. You should see the "spam" I have to delete. Have some guts....glory will follow.

But how are you supposed to know you're being preached to when the preaching is at the end of the email, tough guy?

"Have some guts" is cute. I'm sure you can give me all kinds of pointers, "soldier." Hooah and whatnot.

originally posted by: DelMarvel
And once again: Had the office of the squadron commander forwarded an email from the Jehovah's Witnesses saying "Join us in teaching little children that their salvation depends on knowing Jesus doesn't like Christmas" everyone would instantly see what's going on here.

No they wouldn't. They would turn this around somehow into hating on Witnesses, much like one tried to do with me and Muslims.

The delusion is strong.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: redoubt

This is about giving needy children toys and if the name of a holiday can be shoved between them and those toys... then, IMESHO, our society needs to be flushed.

Have a nice day.

If its only about giving needy children toys - - - then it doesn't need to be labeled with a Specific Faith.

Because your selfish and pathetic feelings are much more important than a poor little child who's joy at the thought of a toy for Christmas was just snatched away by people just like you.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: redoubt

This is about giving needy children toys and if the name of a holiday can be shoved between them and those toys... then, IMESHO, our society needs to be flushed.

Have a nice day.

If its only about giving needy children toys - - - then it doesn't need to be labeled with a Specific Faith.

Because your selfish and pathetic feelings are much more important than a poor little child who's joy at the thought of a toy for Christmas was just snatched away by people just like you.

Which children aren't going to get presents now that would have otherwise?

Haven't these idiot people got anything better to do than try to ban christmas because they find it offensive or some crap. Well some of us find their BS offensive too, can they ban themselves lol.

the toy drive was done by a charity organization at a location off the base. Nothing changed with that, and since you can't snatch back emails once they are received, anyone who read the email had the option of attending. the complaints didn't effect the toy drive in any way. the email in question was just promoting an event that was rather religious in nature and contained religious terminology that isn't considered acceptable to the military for distribution via their email system. and that is where the problem came in.
this has been pointed out on practically every page on this thread probably, and yet, some still want to bemoan the poor little children being deprived of their toys! Who you should be feeling sorry for are these brainwashed gov't employees that are being used by the christian right to further their political agenda even if it harms the best interest of the employees!

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: burntheships

Nope, your hyperbole doesn't resemble anything that anyone has said here.

Please review the thread as well as the US Constitution, Amendment I.

Since when is the constitution important to you? I remember you supporting our leader when he's violated the constitution countless times.
Only now when it is something he would want to enforce, rather than usurp, are you supporting it..
So pathetic.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: redoubt

This is about giving needy children toys and if the name of a holiday can be shoved between them and those toys... then, IMESHO, our society needs to be flushed.

Have a nice day.

If its only about giving needy children toys - - - then it doesn't need to be labeled with a Specific Faith.

Because your selfish and pathetic feelings are much more important than a poor little child who's joy at the thought of a toy for Christmas was just snatched away by people just like you.

Which children aren't going to get presents now that would have otherwise?

Whether this incident caused kids not to get toys or did, isn't a concern for those that threw a hissy fit about it. They only care about being anti Christian. And it certainly is NOT about the constitution, since they have supported so many unconstitutional things the Obama administration has done, and is STILL doing and attempting, we can't even count them all.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: redoubt

This is about giving needy children toys and if the name of a holiday can be shoved between them and those toys... then, IMESHO, our society needs to be flushed.

Have a nice day.

If its only about giving needy children toys - - - then it doesn't need to be labeled with a Specific Faith.

Because your selfish and pathetic feelings are much more important than a poor little child who's joy at the thought of a toy for Christmas was just snatched away by people just like you.

Which children aren't going to get presents now that would have otherwise?

Whether this incident caused kids not to get toys or did, isn't a concern for those that threw a hissy fit about it. They only care about being anti Christian. And it certainly is NOT about the constitution, since they have supported so many unconstitutional things the Obama administration has done, and is STILL doing and attempting, we can't even count them all.

But that's not what you said. You said poor little children had their joy over a new present snatched away. So...which children would that be?

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Then your memory is faulty. Or more accurately, perhaps your memories are clouded by your rampant beliefs.

This is not about me or any other poster. I know that's what some like to focus on when the facts of a given matter are clear ... as in this case.

If you're curious about what I believe, and what I say ... go read it. There's a search function, and I've been here for several years. In point of fact, my usual concern in these political BS discussions is two-fold, correcting ridiculous lies and standing up for the Constitution.

I'm not going to point out your ridiculous logical fallacies or the fact that you're desperately trying to dredge up drivel that has NOTHING TO DO with the situation we are discussing.

Let me break it down for you: the Air Force is a function of the Federal Government. All facilities, personnel and resources of the Air Force are representative of the Federal Government.

Our Constitution forbids the Federal (or any other level of) government from establishing a religion, any religion including Christianity. (See Justice Black's explanation provided earlier).

It's not about me or what I believe or what you believe about me. It's not about some imaginary "attack on Christians."

It's about the facts and about the Constitution. Got it?

originally posted by: JimTSpock
Haven't these idiot people got anything better to do than try to ban christmas because they find it offensive or some crap. Well some of us find their BS offensive too, can they ban themselves lol.

So ... you're not in favor of abiding by the US Constitution?

Christians should have greater rights than everyone else?

Well, at least you're being honest.

originally posted by: DelMarvel
And once again: Had the office of the squadron commander forwarded an email from the Jehovah's Witnesses saying "Join us in teaching little children that their salvation depends on knowing Jesus doesn't like Christmas" everyone would instantly see what's going on here.

... or let's say the office of the commander had said "Personnel are forbidden from participating in the kafir celebrations of Christmas or Hanukkah while on base."

Can you IMAGINE the hew and cry? The shrieks?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DelMarvel
And once again: Had the office of the squadron commander forwarded an email from the Jehovah's Witnesses saying "Join us in teaching little children that their salvation depends on knowing Jesus doesn't like Christmas" everyone would instantly see what's going on here.

... or let's say the office of the commander had said "Personnel are forbidden from participating in the kafir celebrations of Christmas or Hanukkah while on base."

Can you IMAGINE the hew and cry? The shrieks?

That's what I don't get man. The intellectual dishonesty displayed here is absolutely mind blowing.

If this was a story about an atheist sending out an email that had "please don't send me any holiday emails, your God doesn't exist and your religion is a lie" people would be going bananas. But no, because it's the other direction it's okay, you can just hit delete. Never mind that you're not supposed to be subject to emails like that in the workplace to begin with. Just suck it up and hit delete. After you read it, of course.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I don't have any explanation for the blindness on display here except: rampant religious belief.

To see the obvious total avoidance of the facts of the matter, the repeated attempts to squirm out of the very clear facts and make it about kids, or toys, or imaginary anti-Christian attacks or ANYTHING really but the fact that the government cannot support and facilitate a Christian evangelical effort (notice that they keep IGNORING that little gem).

We have posted the actual words from the actual site here which state, clearly, that these efforts are nothing more than attempts to evangelize in the name of the Christian Gospel of Jesus ... and still some folks are ignoring that fact.

I wish I had an answer for you Shamrock ... but there isn't one. Religion in many cases is a mental virus for some, in my opinion.

a reply to: Gryphon66

It that time, Election Time, Time to rummage up some votes, even it they are gained through lies and halftruths. Even if in the end it serves to take away the rights that they are claiming to protect. After all, it's not how you play the game that matters, just that your team wins in the end!!!

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Gryphon66

It that time, Election Time, Time to rummage up some votes, even it they are gained through lies and halftruths. Even if in the end it serves to take away the rights that they are claiming to protect. After all, it's not how you play the game that matters, just that your team wins in the end!!!

I can't disagree with your summation.

How sad that Americans have such blatant disregard for our Constitution when it suits them.

a reply to: Gryphon66

how sad that the group that often times brings up the end of the world prophecies just can't see how their actions are in fact fillfulling some of those prophecies! ya, tear down the separation of church and state, make way for your dreaded anti-christ!!!