Single Element Proof The Bible Is BS

originally posted by: TheSorrow
a reply to: DelMarvel

It's very common for those who have not studied the Bible, but simply read small passages to misinterpret history or culture as being approved by God in the Bible. It is true that slavery did exist in Bible times as it does today. However, you would be misinterpreting the Bible if you then assume that God approves of it.

For example in genesis Joseph is sold into slavery by his Brothers. Some may wrongfully assumed that God approves of brothers selling each other into slavery. This would be an example of the type of misinterpretation you are using.

I was not talking about Joseph being sold into slavery.

I cited numerous New Testament passages instructing slaves to be obedient to their owners.

Why don't you give us some examples of where slavery is condemned in the Bible?

a reply to: DelMarvel

Sure. Slavery is often associated with depravity such as murder and other acts of violence. All of which is spoken against. Referring specifically to slavery you can find multiple examples of the Bible speaking out against it.1st Peter 1 or 1st Timothy 1 both contain examples of how slavery is depraved.

Again, in reading only a select few passages you are able to wrongfully assumed that slavery is justified in the Bible. However as you look at the larger picture you quickly see a different story emerge. Just because something existed in the culture doesn't necessarily mean that the Bible approves of it.

In an effort to protect those who are captive they are encouraged to obey their masters. Another example might be in the case of a runaway slave who is encouraged to go back to their owner. The penalty for a runaway slave is death. They were acting on his behalf to try and save his life. They're acting within the confines of the law and culture of the day.

So although slavery and other acts of violence and depravity existed- the Bible actually speaks against it. We are all living in a worldly system in which these things are sometimes legal and permitted. Back to Joseph as an example- he is sold into slavery, God is working throughout the story to remove him from captivity. And eventually he becomes the #2 guy of the most powerful nation in the world.

If Joseph have made an attempt to just run away he may have been executed. It's easy to get confused with the culture and history with what the Bible is actually teaching. If you were able to spend time and read entire books of the Bible you'll begin to understand the larger picture.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
a reply to: DelMarvel
It is true that slavery did exist in Bible times as it does today. However, you would be misinterpreting the Bible if you then assume that God approves of it.
.

‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Leviticus 25: 44-46

a reply to: DelMarvel

I'm not sure if you're asking a question or just confused. Your comment indicates that you may not understand the difference between books and the seven dispensations.

Slavery in OT times was similar to our own modern conception of what slavery is.

However, The law written in Leviticus protected slaves in a way that was revolutionary at the time. For example a runaway slave would be executed by other foreign or pagan cultures. Whereas Leviticus protects the rights and life of slave. It also gave slaves the right to own land. Working in the culture and not having a clear understanding of history makes understanding most of this difficult to most people.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
a reply to: Barcs

Maybe you haven't noticed- the Bible is correct on this occasion. There are multiple languages spoken all over the world. For example, if you go and take a trip to Europe you would discover that more than 20 languages are spoken. I haven't been there for many years but I do remember that various languages are spoken.

Yes, and when the bible was written, numerous languages existed then as well. The method in which the languages were created is what is in question here, not the fact that languages exist. If the bible said the sky is blue and we look up and see a blue sky, that doesn't mean it's explanation of how the earth was created is true or that anything else is correct. It's like saying the bible got the adam and eve story correct because there are males and females in the world today. There's way more to the story that just that, and it conflicts with what we have learned and discovered about reality, just like tower of babel.

Like everything else, it's just a myth that attempts to explain why people speak different languages, and it's wrong just like how the adam and eve story is supposed to explain how humans were created, but we now know this is impossible without damaging the genetic lines to cause extinction. You gotta have higher scrutiny than that.

a reply to: deadeyedick

So you just want to play semantics games? I know the bible is a book. I'm talking about the accuracy of the stories, surely you knew this?

You believe in talking snakes?

Man living inside of a whale for multiple days?

Woman being inferior to men and being created from a rib?

Humans starting with just 1 man and 1 woman?

The entire world was flooded at once higher than Mt Everest?

Sorry all of these things are demonstrably false.

This is true.
Once one establishes faith then they can begin to see proof.

So to prove something to be true you just have to have blind faith in it? Lol?

a reply to: Barcs

That seems like a complicated way of saying that the Bible was right even if it was by mistake. I will not argue with you. I just hope that people get a better understanding of what the Bible actually says before they rush to such judgments. People actually think that the Tower of Babel was an attempt to vertically or physically reach God. If you do you not want to believe the story of Babel I certainly am not going to try and change your mind or argue with you. But at least take a moment and try to understand the story

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: deadeyedick

So you just want to play semantics games? I know the bible is a book. I'm talking about the accuracy of the stories, surely you knew this?

You believe in talking snakes?

Man living inside of a whale for multiple days?

Woman being inferior to men and being created from a rib?

Humans starting with just 1 man and 1 woman?

The entire world was flooded at once higher than Mt Everest?

Sorry all of these things are demonstrably false.

This is true.
Once one establishes faith then they can begin to see proof.

So to prove something to be true you just have to have blind faith in it? Lol?

A lot of what you said is actually never in the Bible. For example, no where in the Bible does it ever say that a man ever lived inside of a whale. However, this is a common misconception to those who have never studied the Bible.

Women being inferior is another example of not understanding what the Bible actually says about men and women and marriage specifically. For example men are commanded to love their wife more than their own life.

The Bible never said that a snake was speaking to anyone. No idea where that one came from.

In regards to our own origins- it is safe to assume that we all have parents. We have all originated from one man and one woman. Personally, I have never met anyone who is an exception to this.

a reply to: TheSorrow

The story is a metaphor for not testing god, and not putting humans on an equal level to him. I understand the story. I've read the bible in its entirety numerous times. I used to be a practicing Christian, so please don't lump me in with others claiming I don't understand the bible. What you are doing is not "understanding" it. You are trying to rectify and rationalize it with reality by forcing square pegs in a round hole. That's the big difference.

The purpose and message of the story is what matters, not the literal explanation of the origin of languages. The creation story, and in fact the whole book of genesis is based on the same theme. "God created everything. Always put god before yourself. Obey him or face the consequences." It's not hard to figure out.

Here's the exact story from NIV.

11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

Now verse 5-7 is the important part here.

God is saying that if the people succeeded in building their tower into the heavens, they could do anything, which he clearly doesn't want. But then today you have billions of more people working together to achieve much greater common goals and technology (ie airplanes, spaceships, skyscrapers, etc), but god doesn't care? Why would a tower built in primitive times make him think humanity is working together too well, but today none of it matters? That was the point I was trying to make. God is long gone (or at least the entity known as Jehovah).

originally posted by: TheSorrow
a reply to: DelMarvel

I'm not sure if you're asking a question or just confused. Your comment indicates that you may not understand the difference between books and the seven dispensations.

Slavery in OT times was similar to our own modern conception of what slavery is.

However, The law written in Leviticus protected slaves in a way that was revolutionary at the time. For example a runaway slave would be executed by other foreign or pagan cultures. Whereas Leviticus protects the rights and life of slave. It also gave slaves the right to own land. Working in the culture and not having a clear understanding of history makes understanding most of this difficult to most people.

So what you're saying is that the Old Testament law basically instructs slave owners to treat their slaves decently? Which is a far cry from your original statement I was responding to that "the entire theme of the Bible does away with such things as slavery."

What you seem to be saying here is that slavery was endorsed in the Old Testament but we have to look at that in historical context. Which doesn't seem to have much to do with what God "approved" of or not.

originally posted by: TheSorrow
Women being inferior is another example of not understanding what the Bible actually says about men and women and marriage specifically.

Oh, come on. Woman are clearly assigned an inferior position throughout the Old Testament and New Testament.

a reply to: DelMarvel

Nah, once again, The Bible condemns slavery among other types of violent acts as mentioned above. You're mistaking history and culture with what the Bible is teaching.

a reply to: DelMarvel

I would encourage you to read more than a couple passages and get a clear understanding of the distinct roles assigned to both genders. You'll discover that a lots of the responsibility actually falls upon the man. Again, men are instructed to love their wife more than their own life.

If you don't want to believe the Bible, refer to it as fiction and fantasy, that's fine. But this entire thread has so many misquotes and misunderstandings and misinterpretations and just a general ignorance of the Bible itself.

If you're going to take the time to criticize it, maybe you should take some time and actually study it so you can understand it. Reading a small passage here and there and not the book as a whole but claiming to understand it or agree or disagree with it does not make sense to me.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: TheSorrow

The story is a metaphor for not testing god, and not putting humans on an equal level to him. I understand the story. I've read the bible in its entirety numerous times. I used to be a practicing Christian, so please don't lump me in with others claiming I don't understand the bible. What you are doing is not "understanding" it. You are trying to rectify and rationalize it with reality by forcing square pegs in a round hole. That's the big difference.

The purpose and message of the story is what matters, not the literal explanation of the origin of languages. The creation story, and in fact the whole book of genesis is based on the same theme. "God created everything. Always put god before yourself. Obey him or face the consequences." It's not hard to figure out.

Here's the exact story from NIV.

11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

Now verse 5-7 is the important part here.

God is saying that if the people succeeded in building their tower into the heavens, they could do anything, which he clearly doesn't want. But then today you have billions of more people working together to achieve much greater common goals and technology (ie airplanes, spaceships, skyscrapers, etc), but god doesn't care? Why would a tower built in primitive times make him think humanity is working together too well, but today none of it matters? That was the point I was trying to make. God is long gone (or at least the entity known as Jehovah).

Anyone want to address this? I'd be really interested to see a rebuttal.

Friend I read ATS regularly. I don't post that often.I am not English speaking so pardon the mistakes. What you quoted and called BS is actually proof of the truth. The destruction was the cause of sin. One a daily basis we are trying to rebuild the tower of Babel. The headquarters of the EU is a reflection of the uncompleted tower of Babel.

The attempt to restore it was predicted many moons ago: May be you have read the story in the Book of Daniel about the rock destroying the big statue, may be not. Well do it. The destruction is well on its way! I will rather risk my life believing the stories in the Bible than trying to disprove it.

Go well friend

originally posted by: TheSorrow
A lot of what you said is actually never in the Bible. For example, no where in the Bible does it ever say that a man ever lived inside of a whale. However, this is a common misconception to those who have never studied the Bible.

Women being inferior is another example of not understanding what the Bible actually says about men and women and marriage specifically. For example men are commanded to love their wife more than their own life.

The Bible never said that a snake was speaking to anyone. No idea where that one came from.

In regards to our own origins- it is safe to assume that we all have parents. We have all originated from one man and one woman. Personally, I have never met anyone who is an exception to this.

Right now you are just being an apologist.

Genesis 3:16 (NIV)

To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

Numbers 27:8-11 (NIV)

8 “Say to the Israelites, ‘If a man dies and leaves no son, give his inheritance to his daughter. 9 If he has no daughter, give his inheritance to his brothers. 10 If he has no brothers, give his inheritance to his father’s brothers. 11 If his father had no brothers, give his inheritance to the nearest relative in his clan, that he may possess it.

So based on these verses, the man is supposed to rule over the woman. And if a man dies, the men of the family have priority over the women for his possessions.

28 “‘When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 30 The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the Lord for the uncleanness of her discharge.

Women are forced to sacrifice 2 doves to make up for her "uncleanliness" during her period. So having a period is treated like a sin. Basically punishment for being a woman.

The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. 3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised. 4 Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over. 5 If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding.

More favoritism toward men. If a woman has a baby boy, she is unclean for a week. If she has a girl she is unclean for 2 weeks.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29New International Version (NIV)

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

So basically, you are allowed to rape a virgin as long as you pay her father silver and marry her.

The Bible never said that a snake was speaking to anyone. No idea where that one came from.

You have no idea? I thought you were familiar with the bible.

Genesis 3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

So a serpent is not a snake? A talking serpent is believable but a talking snake isn't?

no where in the Bible does it ever say that a man ever lived inside of a whale.

And the Lord caused a great fish to swallow up Jonah; and Jonah was alive within the fish for three days and three nights. In the fish Jonah cried to the Lord; and the Lord caused the great fish to throw up Jonah upon the dry land.

I'm so sorry, it wasn't a whale it was a great fish, which totally makes the story more plausible right? I'm sorry but you are just using semantics if you claim the bible never said any of that.

I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I just don't think the bible was meant to be literal. They are bedtime stories for kids, used to teach morals, so when apologists try to rationalize it to literal reality it makes no sense. Denying what I said in order to argue semantics (snake vs serpent, great fish vs whale, etc) doesn't help your case.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Several points come to mind. The first- the command to spread out and inherit the earth was in jeopardy.

Also, take a good look at who Nimrod was, and what he was attempting to accomplish. This is yet another example of how the God of the Bible is taking action to Bring to a end slavery and injustice.

There is an active movement to bring everyone into a controlled state of being. The idea that they were working towards sending Rockets to explore Mars is a little far-fetched. Or that that was their goal what's to achieve great accomplishments for mankind. Essentially the Tower of Babel is the first of many attempts at one world order in which everyone is controlled and manipulated and slaves to the state.

a reply to: SuperFrog

Am I calling either idea more or less true than the other? No. Am I calling one or the other any more or less based in fact? No. I am pointing to the similarity.

So even though humans were pared down to a population of nearly nothing and populations came from that remnant in Africa with mitochondrial Eve.

The Out of Africa or African Replacement Hypothesis is a well-supported theory that argues that every living human being is descended from a small group in Africa, who then dispersed into the wider world displacing earlier forms such as Neanderthal. Early major proponents of this theory were led by Chris Stringer. The Out-of-Africa theory was bolstered in the early 1990s by research on mitochondrial DNA studies by Allan Wilson and Rebecca Cann which suggested that all humans ultimately descended from one female: the Mitochondrial Eve.

This theory still has the widest acceptance. What are you? Some kind of science denier?

a reply to: TheSorrow

STOP living in denial son and accept what is written in the bible…it is clear that the bible approved of slavery in the Old Testament…

The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?

a reply to: Barcs

Once again all this does is demonstrate that you don't know the stories. You haven't studied them. You know bits and pieces, and even then you get the details wrong. No snake, no whale. You don't have the big picture. You also reveal a lack of understanding of the seven dispensations and how the 66 books are divided. You also confuse culture and history with what the Bible actually teaches and instructs.