You Decide: Is this "Freedom of Expression"?

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Just another case of, "I don't like it, so everyone shouldn't like it either!"

sounds like you are describing the whiners taking down the ten commandments

Now we've come full circle. So, you're either a troll or you're truly ignorant.

What you fail to realize is that the 10 commandment issue, as we have said multiple times before in this thread, was a violation of law, eg the constitution. As far as the "whiners," that's people who don't like something trying to pass laws to make it illegal for other people to personally enjoy or do it. Like porn. Or banning certain books. Or prohibiting alcohol sales on Sunday. Or making pot illegal. Or putting Halloween decorations in your yard, etc.

There are TWO separate issues here that you don't get: constitutional law regarding separation of church and state AND the (sometimes successful) attempt to restrict people's *personal* freedom.

a reply to: Liquesence
That is just one interpretation that deems it wrong.

The thing is with the haters they like to bend and twist the law until it suits their agenda.

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: deadeyedick
Tell me which of the 10 commandments should the gov. remain neutral on?

All of them. The laws against murder and theft do not come from the 10 commandments. And the other eight commandments are not relevant to law.

You just say crap because you like the sound it makes.

That was one of your most dishonest post ever.

It was an accurate post.

So, you're implying that we should have LAWS that make simple lying and adultery illegal, and a LAW to keep the sabbath as a holy day, and a LAW to not worship any other gods, a LAW to not use the lord's name in vain, etc? That would be BLATANT theocracy, and that is completely the opposite of the founding principles of this nation. Period.

If you actually believe that law should exist based on ALL of the 10 commandments (excluding murder and stealing laws, which are not grounded in biblical law themselves), I'm truly concerned.

No what I am saying is that directly or indirectly our laws reflect the ten commandments.
That is what makes the system work.

So, we have a system where it is legal to do anything from sundown Friday until sundown Saturday that you can do on any other day.

As opposed to the commandment which says you can't leave your house, exchange money or pick up sticks without being put to death.

I suppose that's an "indirect" reflection?

Wow. The comments i've read, on the first page alone, let's me know we're closer to the end than we realize. I'm all for a good scare, but to have life like people hanging upside down, with needles sticking out of their necks is beyond expression and more on the lines of Satanic. But hey, if America wants to worship Satan, so be it. Just understand one thing, life will not be pretty, in the upcoming years.

You really underestimate the spiritual world.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic
Those would be indirect.

separation of church and state covers the first one and so on....

And yet, most churches are non-profit organizations; meaning the government has a right to tell the Pastor what he can and can't preach; considering the church doesn't have to pay taxes.

Separation of church and state means not mixing politics with religion.

Although the concept of separation has been adopted in a number of countries, there are varying degrees of separation depending on the applicable legal structures and prevalent views toward the proper relationship between religion and politics.

Lots of people think they know the country they live in, but know very little. They only spew information they were taught, without investigating the matter further.

John Adams

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.

The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity.

John Quincy Adams

My hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ and I cannot cavil or quibble away [evade or object to]. . . . the whole tenor of His conduct by which He sometimes positively asserted and at others countenances [permits] His disciples in asserting that He was God.

Ben Franklin

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see

John Hancock

He called on the entire state to pray “that universal happiness may be established in the world [and] that all may bow to the scepter of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the whole earth be filled with His glory.”

And you said America wasn't founded on "religion"? It most CERTAINLY WAS! The religion of choice was CHRISTIANITY; and the book of choice was the BIBLE.

But, i understand. The transformation from "Christianity" to "Islam", has already begun. Last time i checked, "Muslim" nations aren't doing that well. So, enjoy your future.

a reply to: JuJuBee

You're cherry picking quotes from John Adams and Franklin. Adams was in favor of separation of church and state. I can't imbedded links from my phone but there are many quotes from Adams about the triumph of reason over religious superstition. Both Adams and Franklin (at the time of the founding) were Deists and would not even be considered Christians by today's Christian right as they did not believe in the diety of Jesus. Your quote from Franklin goes on to question the diety of Jesus (which doesn't mean they didn't believe in God, but they certainly endorsed questioning the authority of Scripture.)

It was interesting that during the Constitutional Convention Franklin introduced a motion calling for daily prayer which was rejected and never came to a vote which says a lot about belief at the time regarding incorporating religious practice into government.

Nothing wrong with it at all.... It's Halloween FFS.

*rolls eyes*

originally posted by: JuJuBee
I'm all for a good scare, but to have life like people hanging upside down, with needles sticking out of their necks is beyond expression and more on the lines of Satanic.

A "Satanic" expression is still expression, and is covered by the first amendment. We don't have to agree with or like what is expressed. It's still protected.

a reply to: JuJuBee

But, i understand. The transformation from "Christianity" to "Islam", has already begun. Last time i checked, "Muslim" nations aren't doing that well. So, enjoy your future.

we aren't trasforming from a christian nation, to an islamic nation, it isn't gonna happen, and it's that separation between church and state that will prevent it from happening.

My god, I can see it now, the little islamic beard measurer going from door to door demanding to measure the mens beard...reckon how far he would get before he found himself facing the barrel of someone's gun? take away the guns and he will be facing some other weapon, maybe a cross bow.

If we aren't letting the christians dictate how we live our lives, we certainly ain't going let a bunch of islamics!!!! Heck many of us won't even let our own gov't that we elect into office tell us, which is quite evident everytime I drive my car through town!!

If we were a law abiding bunch, I am pretty sure I wouldn't be seeing so many ignoring the street signs, blocking off the intersections, our gov't would probably have far more revenue coming in, and I wouldn't be reading about murders and shooting just about every day in my local news!

if we were a christian nation, we wouldn't have so many single mothers, or abortions, the streets would be quieter sunday mornings, there would be less lying, more sharing, and no kid would be going to bed hungry tonight.

and if we were being led by christian leaders, they wouldn't be lying through their teeth to get elected, lying to us to get us into wars, and they wouldn't be holding congressional hearings where they have to cut in whenever a glimpse of the truth comes out because they just can't stand to hear the truth!!!

we are a democratic replublic, ya know for the people, by the people, therefore our gov't reflects us, the gov't can't proceed to go about forcing us to reflect what it wants us to be. if you or anyone else doesn't like that reflection, I'd advise you to spend more time working at changing the hearts of those around and less time trying to change the reflection the government it sending back to you.

a reply to: JuJuBee

Separation of church and state means not mixing politics with religion.

At least somebody gets it.

a reply to: JuJuBee

You didn't leave a link for your excerpts, so I looked up the first one, attributed to John Adams. He didn't actually say that. but several websites report it as truth. Look into it some more and you'll find:

This is a patchwork of three phrases taken from a letter (28 June 1813) to Thomas Jefferson juxtaposed to give a misleading impression of Adams’ meaning.

Here's what Adams actually said. (the patchwork parts are bolded)

Could my answer be understood by any candid reader or hearer, to recommend to all the others the general principles, institutions, or systems of education of the Roman Catholics, or those of the Quakers, or those of the Presbyterians, or those of the Methodists, or those of the Moravians, or those of the Universalists, or those of the Philosophers? No. The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence, were the only principles in which that beautiful assembly of young men could unite, and these principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general principles? I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united, and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all those young men united, and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence. Now I will avow, that I then believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature and our terrestrial, mundane system.

Fake History