John Kasich Tells Critics Of Medicaid Expansion To Read The Bible

a reply to: butcherguy

a reply to: enlightenedservant

read my post right above yours

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: butcherguy
How is it that you are completely missing the point of the OP? Maybe go back and read it?

Maybe you need to read it.
Do you see what I have quoted?
Even though the OP denies having told others that he knows better what to do with their money, that is what he is doing.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Don't confuse my support for Medicaid as support for Kaisch's words though.

Trust me, I am not confused.
I understand what you are saying in the OP.

My point is that you are both in support of some of my money being used for charity. Kasich cites the Bible... you cite your own 'morals'.
I want to decide where my charitable contributions go, whether is to a bum on the street in the form of a hot meal, or as a case of baby formula to the local women's shelter.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Reasoning is up to the individual. Medicaid is a good idea. It works.

Then maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and give ALL of your earnings to that program and live in a poorhouse, since it is such a good idea.... in your opinion.

This is a dumb response and not worth responding to. Up your game, you and I both know this reasoning is highly insulting to both of our intelligences. No one is suggesting that Medicaid currently or when expanded is meant to take 100% of your paycheck to help the less fortunate.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

So I guess Kasich must represent real Christianity to you? I'm failing to see the hypocrisy you are exposing. Why don't you find me a quote from Jesus, where he says or implies it is a followers duty to use the government to help the poor or needy. Seems to me, Jesus wants you to make a personal choice to help others. With your own money with your own will. Christianity is not about using the government to do the Church's work.

Where's the hypocrisy and who's really greedy? I'd love to help the whole world, but I won't be found picking your pocket to do my good deeds.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Reasoning is up to the individual. Medicaid is a good idea. It works.

Then maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and give ALL of your earnings to that program and live in a poorhouse, since it is such a good idea.... in your opinion.

This is a dumb response and not worth responding to. Up your game, you and I both know this reasoning is highly insulting to both of our intelligences. No one is suggesting that Medicaid currently or when expanded is meant to take 100% of your paycheck to help the less fortunate.

And I didn't say it was.
I say if it is such a good idea, do as your morals dictate and give your own money. Don't find fault in others for opposing their own money going to someone else, just because of your morals.

You get that, right? Your morals are no different than Kasich.... even if you claim no religion.

a reply to: undo

Ok let's see. The government ALREADY taxes us. They've been taxing us since the government was founded. Sure, income taxes are only 100 years old, but taxes aren't anything new. So pretending like Social programs are stealing from you, is dishonest. Do you consider it to be stealing from you when the government uses tax money to fund some war halfway around the world that has zero effect on you? Do you consider it to be stealing when the government uses tax money to fund the prison industrial complex and the highest incarceration rate in the world?

I don't know about you, but I'd rather my taxes go to help the less fortunate than to those other things.

i don't personally mind the idea of making sure our social medicine programs are well funded. alot of people feel that way. but the thing at issue is that it is their labor that's being redirected into uses that may or may not meet or match, for that matter, what they would have personally done with the fruits of their labor. it's between a rock and a hard place, which is a place the government really doesn't belong

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

moral reasons that are 100% not related to religion.

Not 100%... sounds like there is a little religious background in there.
Is it possible that you were raised in an area that may have had churches? Maybe you were taken to church as a child? Saw an episode of 'Davey and Goliath' as a child?

Wait, you didn't know that I'm an ex-Catholic? I'm not ashamed of this fact. Of course I have a Christian background, just about everyone in this country has one. Most atheists and agnostics in this country are former Christians.

Maybe, it doesn't matter anyway. You are going by your morality, cited in your quote. Not everyone's morals are the same. Maybe you need to worry about your own.... it is your religion as it were.

I've detached my morality from religion a LONG time ago because religion doesn't stay consistent with its own morality. It preaches one thing out of one corner of the mouth, say pro-life, then turns around and sanctions things like war or not helping the needy. I look for consistency in my morals.

originally posted by: undo
it's between a rock and a hard place, which is a place the government really doesn't belong

Why not? Isn't the government's job to protect and care for its citizenry?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

oh i absolutely agree and that's my actual gripe against taxes, as an indiividual. i don't agree with our taxes, which should really be a form of charity but instead is robbery, being used to stage global domination. in fact, every time a new tax is implemented, less and less goes to help the originally intended receipents. i've said this countless times -- with the amount of taxes that have been sucked out of peoples labor, every minority and poor person could have a beatiful home, janitorial service, maid service, a nice car, maybe two nice cars, and streets paved in gold, but that's not the intention of extracting taxes. no the taxes are for advancing global domination and has always been the case, in every country that taxes people's labor.

originally posted by: harvestdog
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So I guess Kasich must represent real Christianity to you? I'm failing to see the hypocrisy you are exposing. Why don't you find me a quote from Jesus, where he says or implies it is a followers duty to use the government to help the poor or needy. Seems to me, Jesus wants you to make a personal choice to help others. With your own money with your own will. Christianity is not about using the government to do the Church's work.

Mark 12:17 And Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they were amazed at Him.

In other words pay your taxes. Looking at social programs as "stealing" from you is dishonest. You already pay taxes that go to fund things like wars. Funding a social program makes little difference, except in this case we are SAVING lives instead of ending them.

Where's the hypocrisy and who's really greedy?

The Christian right.

a reply to: undo

They COULD have these things, except Conservatives fight tooth and nail to make sure that social programs give as little support as possible with tax money, instead opting to spend more and more tax money on destructive policies.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: undo

They COULD have these things, except Conservatives fight tooth and nail to make sure that social programs give as little support as possible with tax money, instead opting to spend more and more tax money on destructive policies.

nope it's not just a conservative thing. both sides want global domination. it looks like it's diametrically polarized positions but it's not. its problem/reaction/solution. good cop / bad cop. dionysus and apollo. the pendulum hurtling back and forth between extremes, designed to do the exact same thing - make everyone equally poor (except the elite), and call it social justice.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I've detached my morality from religion a LONG time ago because religion doesn't stay consistent with its own morality. It preaches one thing out of one corner of the mouth, say pro-life, then turns around and sanctions things like war or not helping the needy. I look for consistency in my morals.

It is still your morals, not mine. Don't force your viewpoint on me. You don't want the right pushing their morals on you, what makes you think I want either yours or theirs forced on me?

a reply to: butcherguy

Where have I pushed my morals onto you? My position in this thread has always been that Medicaid is a good idea and that Kaisch was pointing out obvious hypocrisy between Christian morals and Conservative political rhetoric. At no point have I told you that you MUST believe as I do. All I'm doing is taking a moral code that ISN'T mine and showing where its followers are deviating from it politically.

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: nwtrucker

Translation: "My finances are more important than helping the needy".

You have to admit that the war on poverty has been just as effective as the war on drug and terrorism.
But I'm sure if we keep throwing money at this one it will eventually work.

$40,000,000,000,000 and counting...

a reply to: undo

Sorry, I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory that the left and the right are in cahoots to make everyone but the elite poor. Such things are silly and suggest that the elite are the only humans in existence that have uniform ideas and agree with each other on everything. That's bull#. The elite are just as human as you or I. They disagree with each other just as much as we disagree with each other. Politics is a reason for such disagreements. So pretending like there is no divide between the left and the right is just lazy thinking.

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: nwtrucker

Translation: "My finances are more important than helping the needy".

You have to admit that the war on poverty has been just as effective as the war on drug and terrorism.
But I'm sure if we keep throwing money at this one it will eventually work.

$40,000,000,000,000 and counting...

that's because they misuse the funds, deliberately so.

for example, the head start program was implemented to provide adequate food, medicine and education for poor families. it sounds really good, doesn't it? but it's already considered a failure because the children of generationally impoverished people did not suddenly grow IQs the size of neil de grasse tyson. it takes time to repair nutrionally deprived body parts, the brain most especially, and even longer to repair emotional and mental trauma from living in a war zone 24/7, which many poor communities actually are.