If matter/body is bad (false/against spirit), then so is helping humanity and feeding the hungry

a reply to: arpgme

You are salt and light. Earth and Heaven. Eat, drink and be merry.

originally posted by: wyrmboy12
The spirit needs a body to continue its existence here and learn its lessons in the physical realm...You could argue that to nourish the body has a secondary effect of nourishing the soul....ever hear of Soul Food? You could also argue that any physical action is first produced non physically by the conscious mind which in my opinion is not entirely physical or physical at all....This is very similar to a gun debate....do not judge the tool ( the body) judge the controller ( the spirit)

By carefully reading NDE accounts such as www.nderf.org...

When I first entered the Light I saw nothing but Light, heard nothing, and smelled nothing. I was alone with my own thoughts. Those thoughts, however, were dramatic revelations. Chief among them was the realization that I am not a human being; that what I had been calling my soul is in fact who I really am. And who I really am is not human, but rather a separately existing spiritual being who only inhabited a human animal’s body. Moreover, the human animal I had inhabited has her own life, thoughts, emotions, and personality, and is perfectly capable of living out the rest of her lifetime without me inside.

Doesn't that sound like a race of PARASITES "learning" through humans' experiences? Now you get where the "lessons to learn" mantra came from, and whom/what was it for?
That crap has to be dealt with, once and for all!

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: wyrmboy12

" Being anti-matterial is being separate from others and therefore ethics, compassion/empathy, and helpfulness and generosity in social interactions between people/humans/physical."

You're just making connections here that do not exist. Literally none of this is correct from any point of view.

I will explain what I mean.

Human body = matter.
If matter = evil,
Then human body = evil
To support evil = evil

Therefore to help others physical needs (such as feeding the hungry) through generosity/charity would be evil, but this would only be true if "human body = matter and matter = evil" is true, which I disagree with.

I believe that The Kingdom of God is within and therefore, the body and spirit are connected and compassion is important for the human body, too.

To see spirit and body as separate and say "body = evil, spirit = good" would lead to the conclusion that compassion for the physical needs of others (like the hungry or homeless for example) is unethical.

again. as much as youd like to believe in your twisted perspective. this is not the way it works. the body is prone to perform evil. both knowingly and unknowingly. the spirit and driver of the body acts as the conscience which tries to prevents the body from doing evil. if u only listen to and feed the body u will ignore the will of the spirit. you will ignore your conscience.

i can use your very same twisted understanding to say to YOU.
if the body is evil then why stop at not sharing with anyone? dont share with yourself either because u have a body. just let yourself starve and die too. if you want to go all ASpiritual on us.

again the knowledge of spirituality is all about 'BALANCE'. we must nourish both body and spirit in this life. but in a way that allows the body to be nourished withut committing atrocious sin to gain that nourishment. not ignore one or the other.

originally posted by: arpgme
Generosity to help the poor and hungry would be bad/illusion since that is physical. Maybe by "body vs spirit", I was seeing things the wrong way. Matter is just dense energy, so in reality there is only energy.

If all is energy then there is nothing wrong with loving things and people.


Most of the universal ethics such as "don't kill" and "don't steal", is a part of the way we interaction in the physical. Being anti-matterial is being separate from others and therefore ethics, compassion/empathy, and helpfulness and generosity in social interactions between people/humans/physical.

There is nothing wrong with interacting with the physical, why do you think the Universe and such beauty in it was created? You have never seen the mountains, ocean, a puppy, a sunflower and think we are not meant to interact with the physical?

Don't be attached to the physical is the key. Don't make it part of your identity and you won't get possessive, greedy or obsessed about the physical.

Also key is to realize the eternal "essence/soul" in others, realize that we are all connected and come from the same source, so when you see someone who needs help in any form you cannot but help as you love that being as you love yourself.

Do you have love for yourself? Because honestly, just as an observation and not a judgement, I sense that you are lost.

a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I didn't say there was anything wrong with interacting with the physical. You probably misread/misunderstood the original post/thread.

If you do something for personal gain that is supposed to be charity then you are evil..IMHO.
Charity is giving of ones self with out the need for personal gain or recognition.

" Matter " like dirt, metals, water, gases etc, etc, etc are AS FAR AS WE KNOW at this point in time inanimate and without a conscious that can operate within the confines of GOOD or EVIL... They are therefore incapable of fitting into your good or evil box because they cannot act on their own or make any conscious decision to move, change, attack something, take or give life...They are without WILL... therefore your potential if matter = evil formula is bankrupt as its a fallacy...The square doesn't fit in the circle ok but you're trying to convince us it does...

Spirits however can be good or evil..so just like stupid gun control proponents who blame inanimate objects for the world's problems, you're trying to give certain objects properties that they are unable to possess...

Human body = matter. CORRECT
If matter = evil, - NOT POSSIBLE, Therefore INCORRECT
Then human body = evil - N/A as line 2 is INCRRECT
To support evil = evil - Same as line 3

Also good and evil are a perspective. For instance people will typically agree stealing from others is evil or killng others in cold blood is evil. Hitler didn't believe he was doing anything evil, he thought he and his were the good guys and everyone else including all of the jews were evil.


a reply to: arpgme

a reply to: wyrmboy12

therefore your potential if matter = evil formula is bankrupt as its a fallacy...The square doesn't fit in the circle ok but you're trying to convince us it does...

Notice I said "if" and therefore didn't state it as a fact.

I'm not trying to convince you that matter is evil. I even spoke against it in the last paragraph of the OP:

Most of the universal ethics such as "don't kill" and "don't steal", is a part of the way we interaction in the physical. Being anti-matterial is being separate from others and therefore ethics, compassion/empathy, and helpfulness and generosity in social interactions between people/humans/physical.

a reply to: arpgme

What you’re not understanding, and what I tried to explain to you in my post on page one, is that, because you have a physical perspective on what the body is, you're not able to comprehend what people mean when they say it is wrong to be materialistic / carnally minded.

The way you are thinking of the body is not what the body is at all.

What you're thinking is kind of like “forces are a product of the body."
When the truth is more the opposite: the body is the conception of forces.

Think about reality like it is a present to you, and when you observe it, you’re looking at it in the reverse order that it was made: the wrapping or the image of the gift, the gift or the concept of the gift, and the will to give you a gift / their love for you.

But the person who gave you the present started with their will, then conceived their will as the gift, then they wrapped it.

And what your argument is about is that it is okay to be in love with the wrapping, or the image of the gift, when it absolutely is not.

You know Jesus is the body, correct? Do you love Jesus for his body or for his sacrifice of the body to you? For his will? Think like that.

a reply to: Bleeeeep

What you're thinking is kind of like “forces are a product of the body."

Actually, I was saying the opposite. Energy becomes dense to form matter, like water freezes to become ice.

And what your argument is about is that it is okay to be in love with the wrapping, or the image of the gift, when it absolutely is not.

Why wouldn't it be? The gift came with the wrapping. The wrapping is also a part of the gift (what was given).

You know Jesus is the body, correct? Do you love Jesus for his body or for his sacrifice of the body to you? For his will? Think like that.

He was able to teach the love he taught to the world because of his words and actions through his physical body. So yes, the body was useful for interacting in a strong way with the physical word. I'm not sure why it would be "absolutely not" ok to appreciate that.

a reply to: arpgme

And energy, what is that? Is it physical itself? Must be if it "becomes dense."...



And you're still missing the point. The point of a gift is to show someone your love for them, not to give them something pretty to look at.

If I give you a gift, it is an expression of my will or love for you, as I see it, as I see my will or love - it is not about the gift at all, and if you make it about the gift, you're just materialistic.

Feed rats to prosper exponentially producing more rats. Truthfully ask yourself...is it worth it? The bold ones are in front of 7-eleben needing fiddy cent. I give to those who deserve and that's my deal in life.

If matter/body is bad (false/against spirit), then so is helping humanity and feeding the hungry

All 'good' and all 'bad', all 'values', all 'meaning'... exist in the vanity of the imagination, the ego!
It is reasonable that such vanity exhibits selfish and greedy and corrupt fruit.

'Charity' is an unconditional Virtue of unconditional Love!
It is not taking more than your share of anything (limited resources), thus there will be no 'hungry' and 'homeless'!

Wether you decide to help others in the same earth sphere or not has nothing to do with the amount of time your supposed to incarnate in an earth sphere.

Of course there can be more incarnations and repeats, but I dont see there being any shortcuts not even in death.

I believe this to be a rinse repeat type of world.

a reply to: Bleeeeep

If I give you a gift, it is an expression of my will or love for you, as I see it, as I see my will or love - it is not about the gift at all, and if you make it about the gift, you're just materialistic.

But if you give a gift out of Love, then that gift is something you see as beneficial to the person since you gave that gift with good intention/love. To appreciate the gift is to appreciate the effort and goodwill of the one who gave it.

a reply to: arpgme

I dont know about "bad" but from a Gnostic perspective i suppose you could indeed argue that by helping and feeding the hungry you were prolonging there existence in hell which is essentially where Gnosticism says we currently reside. Personaly i imagine our reality/existence is rather a more complicated affair.

a reply to: andy06shake

But it's not caring about human suffering that makes it "hell"; a self fulfilling prophecy.

a reply to: arpgme

I thought all prophecy was self fulfilling when you get down to the nitty gritty?

a reply to: andy06shake

This is about the virtue of physical action if the physical is evil, not about whether prophecy is real or all just self-fulfilling.


I don't want to lose focus of the topic.

a reply to: arpgme

Virtue is a very human construct as is our notion of good or evil. Just saying.