Neanderthal, Denisovan or not

MOD EDIT: Removed DRAMA

  New work shows that the question of human origins is very complicated.
A new sequencing of the Sima de los Huesos homonins pushes the separation of the denisovan and Neanderthal lines further back into past.

LONDON—In a remarkable technical feat, researchers have sequenced DNA from fossils in Spain that are about 300,000 to 400,000 years old and have found an ancestor—or close relative—of Neandertals. The nuclear DNA, which is the oldest ever sequenced from a member of the human family, may push back the date for the origins of the distinct ancestors of Neandertals and modern humans, according to a presentation here yesterday at the fifth annual meeting of the European Society for the study of human evolution.

Ever since researchers first discovered thousands of bones and teeth from 28 individuals in the mid-1990s from Sima de los Huesos (“pit of bones”), a cave in the Atapuerca Mountains of Spain, they had noted that the fossils looked a lot like primitive Neandertals. The Sima people, who lived before Neandertals, were thought to have emerged in Europe. Yet their teeth, jaws, and large nasal cavities were among the traits thatclosely resembled those of Neandertals, according to a team led by paleontologist Juan-Luis Arsuaga of the Complutense University of Madrid. As a result, his team classified the fossils as members of Homo heidelbergensis, a species that lived about 600,000 to 250,000 years ago in Europe, Africa, and Asia. Many researchers have thought H. heidelbergensis gave rise to Neandertals and perhaps also to our species,H. sapiens, in the past 400,000 years or so.

So , the split in human lineages is farther back that previously thought.

The close affinity with Neandertals, but not with Denisovans or modern humans, suggests that the lineage leading to Neandertals was separate from other archaic humans earlier than most researchers have thought. That means that the ancestors of modern humans also had to split earlier than expected from the population that gave rise to Neandertals and Denisovans, who were more closely related to each other than they were to modern humans. (Although all three groups interbred at low levels after their evolutionary paths diverged—and such interbreeding may have been the source of the Denisovan mtDNA in the first Sima fossil whose DNA was sequenced.) Indeed, Meyer suggested in his talk that the ancestors of H. sapiens may have diverged from the branch leading to Neandertals and Denisovans as early as 550,000 to 765,000 years ago, although those results depend on different mutation rates in humans and are still unpublished.

That would mean that the ancestors of humans were already wandering down a solitary path apart from the other kinds of archaic humans on the planet 100,000 to 400,000 years earlier than expected. “It resolves one controversy—that they’re in the Neandertal clade,” says paleoanthropologist Chris Stringer of the Natural History Museum in London. “But it’s not all good news: From my point of view, it pushes back the origin ofH. sapiens from the Neandertals and Denisovans.” The possibility that humans were a distinct group so early shakes up the human family tree, promising to lead to new debate about when and where the branches belong.

So as it seems, the Sima people were a very early offshoot from homo heidlgergensis, that rebred with later denisovans

sciencemag article

And this really has implications for the peopleing of the Americas.

And this really has implications for the peopleing of the Americas.

Why does it, none of those species made it to America.
the Atapuerca Mountains are in Spain

and for clarity, the Neanderthals, Denisovans are separate sub species,
The Sima people were early Neanderthals, who bred with Denisovans

and such interbreeding may have been the source of the Denisovan mtDNA in the first Sima fossil whose DNA was sequenced

a reply to: Marduk
Marduk,
It has implication for the people of the Americas because it pushes the split times back for modern humans, and Native Americans spit off from the rest of modern humans the earlier than the rest of modern humans.

a reply to: Marduk
I would argue that every homonin since homo erectus is part of a freely interbreeding macro species.
There have been several recent paper that allude to a previously unidentified common archaic ancestor, and it's starting to look like that ancestor is homo erectus.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: Marduk
Marduk,
It has implication for the people of the Americas because it pushes the split times back for modern humans, and Native Americans spit off from the rest of modern humans the earlier than the rest of modern humans.

No, I don't know where you got that from, but Native Americans were fully modern before they left Eurasia
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: punkinworks10

I'm a little bit confused. What do the Denisovan and Neanderthal dates moving back have to do with Native American populations? Are you suggesting that Native Americans are actually Neanderthals or Denisovans?

Dates in the fossil record get pushed back whenever new discoveries are made. This doesn't really change much in the big picture and it doesn't mean that modern homo sapiens are getting pushed back.

a reply to: punkinworks10

Did they? They certainly do not teach that in any of the Genetics papers I've read. I am pretty sure they did not split off that early neighbour.

a reply to: Barcs

It would be because there is no implication towards the First Nations peoples of America I sometimes wonder where people get their ideas from, but one would have to hugely push back the peopling of the Americas to have this matter

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: Marduk

There have been several recent paper that allude to a previously unidentified common archaic ancestor, and it's starting to look like that ancestor is homo erectus.

no that's H. heidelbergensis

Neanderthals, Denisovans, and modern humans (H. s. sapiens) are all descended from H. heidelbergensis. Between 300,000 and 400,000 years ago, an ancestral group of H. heidelbergensis became independent of others shortly after they had left Africa

en.wikipedia.org...

Removed by self to avoid being attacked for suggesting anything not politically correct...
-Christosterone