Not all W Bozons are left handed, Higgs may be a composite particle!

Just found this. As the article states, W Bozons have in the past only been observed as "Left Handed"

Like your hands, some fundamental particles are different from their mirror images, and so have an intrinsic handedness or “chirality”. But some particles only seem to come in one of the two handedness options, leading to what’s called “left-right symmetry breaking. Some theorists have proposed that these exotic particles instead hint that the Higgs boson is not fundamental particle. Instead, it could be a composite, and some of its constituents would account for the observed signals.”.

If this is the case we may be on track to discover completely new forces! VERY exciting.

“If the Higgs is really a composite particle, that would mean new forces just around the corner”

I for one hope that this "anomaly" can be recreated and proven, as it does provide an exciting standard model extension.

For the entire article:
CLICK

a reply to: AshFan

So the God particle may have its Goddess particle!

If the Higgs is a composite what kind of energy in a collider will be needed to break that sucker apart?

a reply to: Aleister

Its not so much about colliding such a particle, but locating one and keeping it manifest and visible for long enough to even think about sending it whizzing off through the apparatus!

Remember, the Higgs particle as they recently discovered it, only became visible to the experiment as a result of a collision, so it is not as if they can just grab a magazine full and try firing a new load out of their accelerator. Oh hell... I just thought... if the Higgs they found before only manifests itself when particles are collided, then does that mean that a second collider must be built, to smash particles into those short lived particles that come about as a result of collisions in the first collider? Does this, in effect, mean that the LHC folk are going to have to build a particle physics version of a figure eight scalextric set?

I propose utilizing quantum entanglement so that the scientists can observe the outcome via spooky action at a distance, maybe inside another collider so they can smash the resulting god particles together.

OR

We can just predict the outcome inside the collider so that quantum mechanics will manifest that outcome, and then smash that.

I really GET this quantum stuff.

originally posted by: AshFan
Just found this. As the article states, W Bozons have in the past only been observed as "Left Handed"

Like your hands, some fundamental particles are different from their mirror images, and so have an intrinsic handedness or “chirality”. But some particles only seem to come in one of the two handedness options, leading to what’s called “left-right symmetry breaking. Some theorists have proposed that these exotic particles instead hint that the Higgs boson is not fundamental particle. Instead, it could be a composite, and some of its constituents would account for the observed signals.”.

If this is the case we may be on track to discover completely new forces! VERY exciting.

“If the Higgs is really a composite particle, that would mean new forces just around the corner”

I for one hope that this "anomaly" can be recreated and proven, as it does provide an exciting standard model extension.

For the entire article:
CLICK

Pardon my very limited understanding.

The Higgs was 'supposted' to be the 'particle' that 'carried' the 'force of gravity'. However the results from the LHC (Large Hadron Collider) in Cern are creating speculation/theorization about more 'force' then the four 'forces' (gravitational, electromagnectic, strong and weak nuclear) currently understood.

Is that what you are saying?

Facinating. Have to rethink/imagine everything in that case.

I have no idea what you guys are writing about, break it down please

originally posted by: yulka
I have no idea what you guys are writing about, break it down please

the cake is lacking the cherry it seems

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: AshFan
Just found this. As the article states, W Bozons have in the past only been observed as "Left Handed"

Like your hands, some fundamental particles are different from their mirror images, and so have an intrinsic handedness or “chirality”. But some particles only seem to come in one of the two handedness options, leading to what’s called “left-right symmetry breaking. Some theorists have proposed that these exotic particles instead hint that the Higgs boson is not fundamental particle. Instead, it could be a composite, and some of its constituents would account for the observed signals.”.

If this is the case we may be on track to discover completely new forces! VERY exciting.

“If the Higgs is really a composite particle, that would mean new forces just around the corner”

I for one hope that this "anomaly" can be recreated and proven, as it does provide an exciting standard model extension.

For the entire article:
CLICK

Pardon my very limited understanding.

The Higgs was 'supposted' to be the 'particle' that 'carried' the 'force of gravity'. However the results from the LHC (Large Hadron Collider) in Cern are creating speculation/theorization about more 'force' then the four 'forces' (gravitational, electromagnectic, strong and weak nuclear) currently understood.

Is that what you are saying?

Facinating. Have to rethink/imagine everything in that case.

The Higgs is the force carrier for Mass, not Gravity.

Gravity is a consequence of mass and ductile (bendy) space-time so the confusion is understandable.

originally posted by: yulka
I have no idea what you guys are writing about, break it down please

Bosons are 'force carrying' particles in the standard model.

The standard model assumes a balance of 'stuff' is the way the universe should be. So for all matter, there should be a balancing amount of anti-matter. For all W Boson particles with one characteristic called handedness, there should probably be some equal and opposite stuff to keep it all in balance. We call this concept of balance, or equality, "Supersymmetry" (abbreviated to SUSY by those who have to write it a lot).

Unfortunately, the proposed balance is not actually observed. The universe seems to have more matter than antimatter and so they are looking for reasons for SUSY to be "broken".

Remembering that the Bosons are all force carriers, the discovery of Bosons with different 'handedness' indicates that there must be more of these oppositely handed, yet undiscovered Bosons, to try and balance the standard model according to SUSY. As they are force carriers, that must mean that there are forces we know nothing about, yet.

This may also suggest that what we are perceiving as the Higgs boson, is in fact a conglomeration of particles rather than one.

The other posts were suggesting that to really understand a compound Higgs with a particle accelerator like the LHC, we'd have to smash Higgs particles apart.

Since the Higgs is only seen in high energy collisions in the first place, the only way we'd be able to get Higgs particles to smash them together is to have an accelerator within an accelerator. One to generate the Higgs and a second to smash the 'separated out' Higgs bosons together.

a reply to: chr0naut

what is the outcome?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: AshFan
Just found this. As the article states, W Bozons have in the past only been observed as "Left Handed"

Like your hands, some fundamental particles are different from their mirror images, and so have an intrinsic handedness or “chirality”. But some particles only seem to come in one of the two handedness options, leading to what’s called “left-right symmetry breaking. Some theorists have proposed that these exotic particles instead hint that the Higgs boson is not fundamental particle. Instead, it could be a composite, and some of its constituents would account for the observed signals.”.

If this is the case we may be on track to discover completely new forces! VERY exciting.

“If the Higgs is really a composite particle, that would mean new forces just around the corner”

I for one hope that this "anomaly" can be recreated and proven, as it does provide an exciting standard model extension.

For the entire article:
CLICK

Pardon my very limited understanding.

The Higgs was 'supposted' to be the 'particle' that 'carried' the 'force of gravity'. However the results from the LHC (Large Hadron Collider) in Cern are creating speculation/theorization about more 'force' then the four 'forces' (gravitational, electromagnectic, strong and weak nuclear) currently understood.

Is that what you are saying?

Facinating. Have to rethink/imagine everything in that case.

The Higgs is the force carrier for Mass, not Gravity.

Gravity is a consequence of mass and ductile (bendy) space-time so the confusion is understandable.

Thank you, as I said my understanding in limited.

And your plain English explanation was superb.

originally posted by: yulka
a reply to: chr0naut

what is the outcome?

Well, it's all a bit theoretical at present because the science has not yet been done. But currently there are believed to be only four (or five) forces: the strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force, electromagnetic force and gravity.

Many have posited other forces but perhaps we don't see them because they are always mixed up with the ones we know. The ones we know stand out because they all operate differently than each other. If forces exist that look the same as the ones we know, then we'd never even guess their existence.

But if there are other ways to identify these forces (like identifying their Bosons) it will give us a way to know about them and perhaps develop a greater finesse in controlling things.

On the theoretical side, we'd have a better understanding of the way the universe works and perhaps get some answers to stuff that eludes us now (although in all likelihood we'd have far more questions raised but be able to ask better questions about reality).

a reply to: chr0naut

oh wow, its like reading hermetics but 4000 years ago....

We are primates, making a world of fantasies.

originally posted by: yulka
a reply to: chr0naut

oh wow, its like reading hermetics but 4000 years ago....

We are primates, making a world of fantasies.

Yeah, but Hermes three-guesses never had a Large Hadron Collider.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Aleister

Its not so much about colliding such a particle, but locating one and keeping it manifest and visible for long enough to even think about sending it whizzing off through the apparatus!

Remember, the Higgs particle as they recently discovered it, only became visible to the experiment as a result of a collision, so it is not as if they can just grab a magazine full and try firing a new load out of their accelerator. Oh hell... I just thought... if the Higgs they found before only manifests itself when particles are collided, then does that mean that a second collider must be built, to smash particles into those short lived particles that come about as a result of collisions in the first collider? Does this, in effect, mean that the LHC folk are going to have to build a particle physics version of a figure eight scalextric set?

As a novice in the field of particle physics I'm not sure, but your idea sounds like a blast regardless.

a reply to: chr0naut

Just wait until they say: We made contact with interdimensional beings of the, what are we 4th, it makes them 6th? nvm, any dimension. They live in the humongous nine galaxy constellation, they can inhabit our bodies, we opened the portal, anyone who doesnt believe is sent to the gallows, lets purge this world, recognize the story? i just want to sit under my cherry blossom tree smell the flowers without any weird or dumb monkeys close, or ill just fake i believe the story and fit right in

originally posted by: yulka
a reply to: chr0naut

Just wait until they say: We made contact with interdimensional beings of the, what are we 4th, it makes them 6th? nvm, any dimension. They live in the humongous nine galaxy constellation, they can inhabit our bodies, we opened the portal, anyone who doesnt believe is sent to the gallows, lets purge this world, recognize the story? i just want to sit under my cherry blossom tree smell the flowers without any weird or dumb monkeys close, or ill just fake i believe the story and fit right in

Sakura! (cherry blossom) tree??? Don't be deceived, they are really the mind sucking appendages of ultra-realm parasitic mind vampire aliens.

Haven't you listened to what the branches whisper when the breeze is just right!!!!

The cute little flowers are merely bait for the trap.

originally posted by: AshFan

Glad to know they're left handed like me! I'm in good company. :3

In all seriousness, whatever new forces we could possibly discover would be incredible! The Higgs Boson has been an interesting read to me for a while. I wonder if in turn these discoveries will eventually help us understand why gravity is weaker than the other forces.

a reply to: Aleister

Would we really want to collide two Higgs to break it apart? Is it safe? One of the main safety justifications for the current LHC experiments is that LHC-type collisions naturally happen on a regular basis so if there was some disastrous effect then it would already occur regularly.

I cannot imagine that Higgs bosons collide and smash apart naturally, so that raises a significant risk not present with current LHC experiments. Could it have a world or universe ending effect?

originally posted by: ajc5165
a reply to: Aleister

Would we really want to collide two Higgs to break it apart? Is it safe? One of the main safety justifications for the current LHC experiments is that LHC-type collisions naturally happen on a regular basis so if there was some disastrous effect then it would already occur regularly.

I cannot imagine that Higgs bosons collide and smash apart naturally, so that raises a significant risk not present with current LHC experiments. Could it have a world or universe ending effect?

Theoretically, they have already found one of these new particles. Perhaps at higher energies we'll find more, so we wont actually need to actually collide Higgs Bosons into each other. The Higgs would most likely break apart at the higher energies.