Is MGTOW a sign that humanity is evolving?

MGTOW
Men/Man Going Their Own Way.

MGTOW is basically the statement of self-ownership and saying that only you have the right to decide what your goals in life should be.

It is saying that, as a man I will not surrender my will to the social expectations of women and society, because both have become hostile against masculinity.
www.urbandictionary.com...

For a long time I've been searching for something that indicated that humanity was evolving rather than devolving. Most of what I see leads me to believe that humanity is devolving overall but there's one huge exception in my opinion, the MGTOW movement. Simply put:

MGTOW = A move towards unlimited individual freedom

In my opinion, anything else is protection of the status quo which means subjugation to traditions which stifle and extinguish human creativity and freedom.

I'm waiting for a "Women Going Their Own Way" movement but I'm not holding my breath. I've read a lot of debates on MGTOW and most women seem to be against it. They use arguments such as, "The birth rate will decline too much if there aren't enough marriages." I think that would be a wonderful thing. If huge numbers of men are realizing that they never wanted marriage/children because of MGTOW, maybe these men shouldn't be getting married or having children, under any circumstances. Wouldn't life be better for all if only people who truly deeply wanted marriage and children were getting married and having children?

To me, refusing to follow traditions and the status quo because it isn't right for you is a good definition of evolving. We could have a much better and freer world if everyone did that.

a reply to: Profusion

I am not against MGTOW's, I do believe people should think for themselves, and make their own life choices.
Though the movement, as it becomes more and more organized, is falling into the same trap any philosophy or ideology does- becoming imprisoned in it's own protective walls. I've seen more and manifestos for what they stand for, "what a MGTOW does and doesn't do" to draw lines and sort out which men can be accepted and acknowledged as one and who aren't.

As that happens, what you get is men striving to adhere to just another set of guidelines in order to belong. Just another club or tribe, with another set of acceptable and unacceptable choices. The same thing that happens with religions- the beliefs themselves start out one way, but the complex organization corrupts the basic premises.
Conformism takes the place of thinking for oneself.

I've already seen men aggressively insulted and rejected form the MGTOW groups because part of their own way included being married, as they felt they found a woman who was right for them and that they feel good with. Even though they still believed in their individual right to choose their own way.... but their own way is not "our way" so that makes it unacceptable.

As far as evolution goes, look up John B. Calhoun and the Behavioral Sink. This phenomenon reflects exactly the results of those studies and what happens when a civilisation gets overpopulated and it inevitably leads to an end of the group. It's the end part of the life of a society.

But that doesn't mean I am against it, if that is the way it needs to go, so be it. Maybe we've outlasted our stay on this earth anyway.

But another thing- Anglo saxons tend to think their culture is the only one in the world. Feminism has taken rise and brought the pendalum from one extreme to another, and legislation and culture favors women now - but not in all countries! Speaking about that as if it is a global phenomena is false.

It is probably natural that women within that specific culture that is devolving and dying out probably have a instinctual sense of threat to their people, which might be justified.

Wow. This is the first i've heard of this. I am 43 years old, never been married and have no children. I have been told that I am a pretty decent looking man and have plenty of opportunities to meet and go out with woman. I have had the occasional relationship, but for one reason or another it didn't work out. So many people think it's weird, but I have never felt any pressure (internal or external) to start a family. I honestly could not care less about it. I will do what feels right. From getting married tomorrow to staying single my entire life and everything in between. It's all good.

a reply to: Profusion

Since this has always happened, anyway, but without the label, how could you describe it as an evolutionary step?

A biologist I know put it well: "A trained organism in a controlled environment will always do what it damn well pleases"!

This is what I would say 80% of men plan on doing but then they end up knocking someone up.

If we get a decent birth control for men, I think that there would be a noticeable difference on the way things work.

Do we really have to label everybody?

Guys who are simply sick of stupid bulls# now have an acronym?

Leave me out of it. Which is all we really want in the first place--leave me out of your stupid bulls#.

Woman or man.

a reply to: NthOther

I would take anything off the urban dictionary with a grain of salt. Look up "space-docking" on the UD if you need any proof to that statement.

a reply to: Profusion
Your point is extremely valid. The general population do want to be controlled or manged by nanny state or religions. We have evolved to actually take responsibility for our actions. This evolutionary change can be identified by the realization we cannot believe our own lies. This is in turn breaking the biggest excuse for evil deeds into pieces. DENIAL gives us the ability to lie to ourselves and believe it. The truth has started to resonate wildly within us, that is the reason politicians are failing, business leaders are being exposed, peadophiles being caught etc.
We will be able to discern truth from fiction no matter the source. even if the source is our own ego. The pay off is those who have a little denial to overcome will be able to make the transition quite easily. It will be torture for those riddled with DENIAL.
Grab a smoke or beer and watch them destroy and blame each other for the heinous way their denial has allowed them to act.
The best justice is personal judgement. True judgement and realisation. it will be hilarious and is very close to tipping point. I would personally like to thank evey evolved responsible human in the world for getting us to the tipping point and thus on the brink of a new ERA.
THANK YOU

a reply to: Profusion

so this is like the whole Feminism thing but for men? Seems pretty hypocritical and further justifies overly-aggressive feminists to continue doing what they're doing. But that's probably just because some overly-aggressive feminists have left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm skeptical/devil's advocate for anything that might justify their crappy attitude lol

a reply to: Profusion

I think it depends upon the man. For some, it's a positive thing that may certainly help an individual evolve.
I do think that for many of these men I can see the appeal and even why it makes sense to them and maybe even makes a certain sense socially and culturally. We no longer need to breed like mad in order to maintain our society. If you do not have an overwhelming drive to be a father on a personal level, why bother? Long term relationships are difficult and often messy. There are women that are checking out of the breeding pool as well though. Frankly, it is possible for many men and women to raise a child on their own if they really want to be a parent. For many, the potential benefits vs. effort just don't add up. This part of it is not necessarily a strictly gendered phenomenon, but I do believe that there are more men than women feeling this way and acting on it.

Most haven't really come to terms with their instincts and ego, so as a result, for some MGTOW it is simply a sign that our society is circling the drain of Calhoun's Behavioral Sink. Some are "The Beautiful Ones", focused entirely on self and in some (although not all) rather myopically focused upon rather shallow aspects of self. We are still social creatures and complete self-absorption is not conducive to the survival of the species. At the end of the day, this in and of itself is not so bad, as long as they aren't wallowing in resentment. It is not very socially responsible, but we don't need to invest in social capital as much as we did previously as a species, so we can exist in our little personal bubbles without much (if any) harm.

For others, they are simply throwing a fit because they are entitled snots who don't see women as human beings but as playthings that should exist for their own sexual gratification and ego stroking. When they don't get that, and they see it is unlikely that they will, they just categorize all women as Spoiled Princesses and pick up their ball and stomp off to pout.

In my experience though, the MGTOW movement focuses obsessively on hating women more than self improvement specifically for individual men or empowerment for men in general. If they find life fulfillment without cultivating a long term relationship then good for them for figuring themselves out in spite of the instincts and social pressures. As long as it is a positive thing, instead of a whiny Poor Me Women Are Mean and Evil thing, then great. Good for you, and it could be at least an aspect of social evolution that is contemporarily relevant. I don't think it is a good long term survival strategy for the species however. Things change. Times get hard. If we don't know how to interact with each other in a way that facilitate sexual reproduction we may be in trouble in the end.

There is a viciously, negative preoccupation with women that is so pervasive and ubiquitous that it invalidates most of the current MGTOW movement; which is a shame really. It could be a good thing if there were some more self awareness and direction, but at the moment... Not so much. Long story short, if you don't want to settle down and have a long term relationship there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but don't be a jackass about it either. In my experience most MGTOW are ANGRY (above all things), entitled, nearly completely incapable of self-awareness and utterly mired in a cognitive dissonance so complete that they will never actually achieve any sort of self improvement.

''Men going their own way'' sounds great, it suggests something that I'd have no issues with. A man not interested in marrying and prefers doing other things? That's okay, be my guest, have lots of fun. But... you don't need a movement for that. There're many men and women Going Their Own Way by just doing their own thing, and they see no need to talk about that on the internet. The problem with MGTOW, at least according to me, is the rampant, deep misogyny and hope for societal collapse after which women will crawl to them on their bare knees asking for help, after which those 'females' are put back in their 'place' again and men will be tyrants over them.

It's not just guys trying to find a new way in life or something, it's more of a hate movement, and an obtuse one at that. Simply put:

-It's full of misogyny.
-It's full of pseudoscience that's so bad it doesn't even qualify as pseudoscience anymore if you ask me.
-it's actually very misandrist. They hold very low views of men but they don't see it.
-they have weird doomsday phantasies where women will beg for their help to survive.
-they hope for a sexbot revolution where women will be desperate because they've been replaced by sexbots that don't nag and never have headaches, after which women will try to compete with these somehow awesome sex dolls and sexbots.

I don't see how this helps humanity evolve, I'd rather say it's a step in the wrong direction. Humanity needs something that actually helps men and this # just drags them down.

a reply to: Profusion

How is this evolution? ... Even socially it's just 'movement' for some to an age old philosophy - and let's face it, anarchy preceded civilisation so going back to it is devolution if anything..... Things normally evolve into more complex or better adapted forms..... This is taking society back to 'F OFF AND DIE, the lot of you, for all I care'..... Immature sulking by those who can't be bothered to fight for Real Direct Democracy and equality before the law...... Anarcho-capitalism will end up with the majority as serfs to a few kings - just like Crony Capitalism of now/NWO....

a reply to: Profusion

There are those who say that it is an unintended consequence of the social interventionist legal constructs that have been erected around a variety of special interests. Some also say that is the intended consequence of those programs and laws.

The one thing that is for sure is that the phenomenon coincides with the expansion of social intervention and state oversight and regulation of interpersonal relationships.

Western society has become oppressive. We're subjugated not by religion, not by the government, but by materialism and greed and laziness. There are many "movements" out there for people to ascribe to.

Back in the 60's and 70's lots of communes sprang up as more and more people wanted to explore various different ways of life. Different communes have different sets of rules and lifestyle persuasions, but I've noticed they all have something in common - living closer to the land. In Australia, we have thousands of people who flock to certain areas to live off grid and escape the falseness of modern culture.

Yet something else is happening now - people are starting to blame each other. Out in the country, people talk to each other a lot more. In the cities, they hate each other. Too many people, too close together and of course some will start to rebel and even lash out.

And we are stripped of our humanity. In Australia, if you hit someone, no matter why, you'll get arrested and spend the night in gaol. The police will be on you almost immediately. Now, violence should be regulated of course, but we as humans need the right to hit each other now and then. Yes blood might spill and someone might wake up quite sore the next morning, but so what? That's what we're made for, not sitting around getting fatter and fatter. We're made for running around and getting hurt and dirty from time to time, and denying it will leave you dead inside. Yet that's what people do, they deny it all, shy away from it, turn back to their iphones.

This is not evolution. This is simply the natural consequence of robbing people of their right to be a human being.

a reply to: Profusion
MGTOW sounds like a spring board for true spiritual enlightenment above the material (animal instinct vs human intellect). Go on an Australian Aboriginal 'Walkabout' for 3 months with the natives without possessions or clothing; are you coming back from spirit into form or the opposite. What freedoms are obvious in lacking to the MGTOW now just recognizing? You don't have to grow your own food, build embattlements against invaders. What is the message here; (life is so easy that one can invent ridiculous problems for themselves and organize them into a MOVEMENT of whining about nothing).

originally posted by: PrivateSi
a reply to: Profusion

How is this evolution? ... Even socially it's just 'movement' for some to an age old philosophy - and let's face it, anarchy preceded civilisation so going back to it is devolution if anything..... Things normally evolve into more complex or better adapted forms..... This is taking society back to 'F OFF AND DIE, the lot of you, for all I care'..... Immature sulking by those who can't be bothered to fight for Real Direct Democracy and equality before the law...... Anarcho-capitalism will end up with the majority as serfs to a few kings - just like Crony Capitalism of now/NWO....

Sorry, but evolution doesn't lead to increased complexity. It's a common misconception, but that doesn't make it any less wrong. Evolution is the change in frequency of alleles via mutation, leading to adaption through survival rates/sexual selection. Just because one thing is well-adapted to a particular environment doesn't mean it's somehow "better" overall. If you took a modern human and placed him in the Paleolithic, he wouldn't last more than a few weeks. His maladaptation would be pretty apparent. Evolution is not about complexity or "superiority", especially considering that "complexity" itself is subjective, and it doesn't have a clear scientific definition. A lot of plants have more chromosomes and genetic material than we do- does that mean that plants are more "complex" than we are?

Modern society is sick and rotten in many ways. Hardly better than any other period in history, barring technological advances. The MGTOW movement is just another malignant symptom of the disease everyone suffers from. Dependency, complacency, and weakness.

I *was* going to post that MGTOW basically sounds like the definition of manhood... until I actually read up on it a bit.
www.mgtow.com...

This is little more than an excuse for the feminization of men alongside the disturbing trend of men throwing aside manliness and the responsibilities of a man.

Sorry, I don't care for this. My inner knuckle dragging, chest thumping, animal killing, intruder crushing, loin cloth wearing, uncouth caveman (which is surprisingly similar to my outer knuckle dragging, chest thumping, animal killing, intruder crushing, loin cloth wearing, uncouth caveman) has no real use for men who refuse to act like men. Manliness absolutely is taking a baseball bat to the head when called for and neither flinching nor whining about it. We kill ourselves so our wives and children don't have to, as far as I am concerned.

...and no, I'm far from a feminist. I understand the excuse they're using, but dammit all, it is entirely possibly to be a chauvanist and chivalrous at the same time. That fact is pretty obvious throughout history.

There is no such thing as MGTOW, it should be PGTOW.
That is, People Going Their Own Way.

The idea that men are supreme and women are parasites will ruin families.
The MGTOW who critisise "third wave feminism" and say it is "anti family" are being ridiculous. It is they who will destroy the family thru distrust and hated of their own sisters, mothers and female children.
The MGTOW movement can never live side by side with "pro family"
More kids will end up as "wards of the state" if the father has no personal responsibility.
Especially female children.

no it is not a sign that man is evolving, some of us prefer hanging out with same sex, opposite sex, or both sexes doesnt matter.
this is not "new".

a reply to: Profusion

MGTOW
Men/Man Going Their Own Way.

MGTOW is basically the statement of self-ownership and saying that only you have the right to decide what your goals in life should be.

That's not a new thing many people feel the same and have felt the same for thousands of years (both male and female).

Luckily, there is an ancient (rather eternal) movement of "love thy neighbour" and "love your enemies" and "lovingkindness for all beings".

Love and forgiveness is what will lead to peace.