'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours

Nobody was espousing a theory of the fundamental nature of gravity...

is this a late april fools day joke ?, flying cars ? the first mainstream application ..I think they would be better off starting on skateboards first


funbox

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

The only time you would feel g-forces would be during acceleration and deceleration. Like in a car.

Once you and the spacecraft were traveling the same speed you wouldn't feel anything,

To moon in 4 hrs. is impossible.
To get to the moon in 4 hours means that you would have to accelerate for 2 hours then decelerate for 2 hrs.
You would have to cover a distance of 119,500 miles in two hours to do that you would have to accelerate at a rate of 28,680 feet per second, giving an acceleration force of896.28 G's then turn around and decelerate at the same rate.

That's so not going to happen.

But the EM drive does work and produces significantly more thrust than do the early ion drives, whose thrust force is about the same as a piece of paper would exert on your hand.
But the since that are on thrust all the time very high velocities can be achieved.

I'm just going to put this right here, courtesy of the nice people i met at NASA Ames:

a reply to: JadeStar

Jadestar... , drop a video up with no description ? I haven't the hour to spare ,

affirmation of the op or some other tangent?

funbox

Do you like warp drives? You'll spare an hour.

originally posted by: funbox
a reply to: JadeStar

Jadestar... , drop a video up with no description ? I haven't the hour to spare ,

affirmation of the op or some other tangent?

funbox

a reply to: JadeStar

I'm with FunBox n this; where in the hour is the relevant stuff? And, do they show credible science or just talk about it?

Evaluating NASA’s Futuristic EM Drive
2nd.

a reply to: tanka418

I figured given that 90% of the comments on this thread have been directed towards gforce and the problems it presents , jump to about twelve mins in ... spacewarps

I figure that this was what you where thinking Jadestar,, but would the ops device be compatible , and be able to juice the energy required ?

funbox

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: jaffo
No, no, and no. This is a lot of hot air. The thing does not work as advertised. I wish it did, but it does not.

www.iflscience.com...

From the OP "Nevertheless, we do observe thrust close to the actual predictions" ...that would sort of mean it does produce thrust and enough to match the information given by the people that make it?

Exactly!!

This is a very significant point and this is exactly how Science works.

All of the blind proclamations and head in the sand knee jerk reactions mean NOTHING!!

THEY SAY:

"Nevertheless, we do observe thrust close to the actual predictions after eliminating many possible error sources that should warrant further investigation into the phenomena."

THIS IS THE KEY!

Sadly, many people have their heads in the sand and based on our limited understanding of the universe want to declare this or that is impossible. Frankly, I think this position is ASININE.

The Researchers are saying that they observed thrust close to actual predictions. It then ends like this:

THAT SHOULD WARRANT FURTHER INVESTIGATION INTO THE PHENOMENA!!

This is a Scientist just being open minded and saying we need to look into these things further. In Science, a theory is proposed and then experiments occur to see if the observed evidence and the predictions of the theory are close. When this occurs, it's silly just to BLINDLY SAY THIS CAN'T BE.

originally posted by: funbox
I figure that this was what you where thinking Jadestar,, but would the ops device be compatible , and be able to juice the energy required ?

If Dr. White is correct, than the required energy drops by several magnitudes. Although, I do believe that the EM Drive is what creates the 'warp field' as well as the thrust to travel while in it.

If that is the case, than yes, the EM Drive would be able to 'juice the energy required'.

Spaceships .. Spaceships .. yeah!!

Seriously.. why not? We are not stopping to evolve technological. This might be the next step.

a reply to: flyandi
As big of a step as this potentially could be, we are still grounded by one very fundamental issue.

Getting the "ship" into space.

Until we can find a way to economically move mass to space, we (the vast majority of humanity) are effectively grounded.

originally posted by: peck420
Evaluating NASA’s Futuristic EM Drive
2nd.

So, it's already NASAs EM drive?
They made an inferior copy of one invented by a British scientist and now they own it!

originally posted by: peck420
Evaluating NASA’s Futuristic EM Drive
2nd.

Good posts:

This lack of expulsion of propellant from the drive was met with initial skepticism within the scientific community because this lack of propellant expulsion would leave nothing to balance the change in the spacecraft’s momentum if it were able to accelerate.

However, in 2010, Prof. Juan Yang in China began publishing about her research into EM Drive technology, culminating in her 2012 paper reporting higher input power (2.5kW) and tested thrust (720mN) levels of an EM Drive.

In 2014, Prof. Yang’s papers reported extensive tests involving internal temperature measurements with embedded thermocouples.

It was reported (in SPR Ltd.’s website) that if the Chinese EM Drive were to be installed in the International Space Station (ISS) and work as reported, it could provide the necessary delta-V (change in velocity needed to perform an on-orbit maneuver) to compensate for the Station’s orbital decay and thus eliminate the requirement of re-boosts from visiting vehicles. Despite these reports, Prof. Yang offered no scientifically-accepted explanation as to how the EM Drive can produce propulsion in space.

Dr. White proposed that the EM Drive’s thrust was due to the Quantum Vacuum (the quantum state with the lowest possible energy) behaving like propellant ions behave in a MagnetoHydroDynamics drive (a method electrifying propellant and then directing it with magnetic fields to push a spacecraft in the opposite direction) for spacecraft propulsion.

In Dr. White’s model, the propellant ions of the MagnetoHydroDynamics drive are replaced as the fuel source by the virtual particles of the Quantum Vacuum, eliminating the need to carry propellant.

This model was also met with criticism in the scientific community because the Quantum Vacuum cannot be ionized and is understood to be “frame-less” – meaning you cannot “push” against it, as required for momentum.

The tests reported by Dr. White’s team in July 2014 were not conducted in a vacuum, and none of the tests reported by Prof. Yang in China or Mr. Shawyer in the UK were conducted in a vacuum either.

The scientific community met these NASA tests with skepticism and a number of physicists proposed that the measured thrust force in the US, UK, and China tests was more likely due to (external to the EM Drive cavity) natural thermal convection currents arising from microwave heating (internal to the EM Drive cavity).

However, Paul March, an engineer at NASA Eagleworks, recently reported in NASASpaceFlight.com’s forum (on a thread now over 500,000 views) that NASA has successfully tested their EM Drive in a hard vacuum – the first time any organization has reported such a successful test.

To this end, NASA Eagleworks has now nullified the prevailing hypothesis that thrust measurements were due to thermal convection.

A Scientist would be closed minded and IDIOTIC not to take these things seriously after these results. What this is saying is that the vacuum propels the craft because the vacuum is the lowest possible energy state.

So virtual particle popping in an out of the vacuum would propel the EM Drive. Again, the key here is this:

Dr. White proposed that the EM Drive’s thrust was due to the Quantum Vacuum (the quantum state with the lowest possible energy) behaving like propellant ions behave in a MagnetoHydroDynamics drive (a method electrifying propellant and then directing it with magnetic fields to push a spacecraft in the opposite direction) for spacecraft propulsion.

In Dr. White’s model, the propellant ions of the MagnetoHydroDynamics drive are replaced as the fuel source by the virtual particles of the Quantum Vacuum, eliminating the need to carry propellant.

It's really quite simple. In space, you wouldn't need propellant ions to propel the craft. This ions are replaced by virtual particles from the vacuum.

This would simply be AMAZING!

At first, you wouldn't send humans to Mars or the Moon using this but satellites and probes could uses this to explore planets much faster and eventually these probes will be equipped with Artificial Intelligence.

a reply to: peck420

maybe , but there seemed to be an awful lot of coughing going on in the op's video , a wry amused smile when starting to talk about the flying cars , something doesn't sniff right, or the whole story's not being told, not surprising if it isn't

but he belives there are dangers

I wonder if Pat an co got caught up in a test drive

funbox

Since I have nothing better to do, I would gladly hop into the prototype to test the theory of mass/g-force in a vacuum.

If the naysayers are correct, I will be viewing the backside of my head. If they're wrong, they can pull their collective heads out of each others a$$es and admit they were wrong.

After all, 500 years ago the Earth was flat. That was accepted as fact. Until someone had the courage to chance falling off the edge of the world.

Just because an accepted law of science is there, doesn't automatically mean it can't be broken. We have only begun to discover our place in the universe. Perhaps we have the laws all wrong, or only partially correct as we currently understand them.

Copernicus was ridiculed and labeled a heretic in his time by the respected members of the scientific community .

I say let's build the thing. I always wanted to see where I had been knowing full well this could be the opportunity. In case the developers of the drive are correct, I will need to pack a lunch.

originally posted by: neoholographic
The British designed EM Drive actually works and would dramatically speed up space travel, scientists have confirmed

No it has not been confirmed - read what they actually wrote!

"Our test campaign cannot confirm or refute the claims of the EM Drive but intends to independently assess possible side-effects in the measurements methods used so far," said Prof Tajmar.

See? He actually says they cannot confirm or refute the claims...

Also
io9.com...

“He also stated that he was still recording thrust signals even after the electrical power was turned off which is a huge key clue that his thrust measurements are all systematic artifact false positive thrust signals.”

and

NASA aerospace engineer Marc Millis tells io9 something similar. The experiment, Millis explains, seemed to show thrust lingering even after the power was off, which would be indicative of a thermal effect. What’s more, when looking at previous EMDrive experiments, Davis noticed that the alleged thrust was generated slowly, and not instantaneously, when the electrical power was switched on. “This is a direct indication of a thermal effect in reverse (heating versus cooling), which produces a clear false positive thrust signal,” says Davis. “Tajmar has to account for and reconcile this fact as well in his data analysis which he apparently did not discuss in his paper. This would be another nail in the coffin against the existence of any real definite momentum violating thrust produced in the microwave cavity.”

a reply to: hellobruce

Ok, you make a good point, but they also did not test it in a vacuum. NASA did, and still confirmed thrust, which rules out the temperature causing air pressure differentials and false thrust.