BREAKING: Hartford Consensus: "Majority of Sandy Hook injuries were survivable."

originally posted by: megabogie
a reply to: angeldoll

tell that to all the firemen who ran into the world trade center.

That's just not a comparable analogy. It would be only if the firefighters had gone up onto the floors that were actively in the intense flames. I know that was dangerous......... they ventured into horrible conditions, but it's not the same.

I don't even like talking about any of this. Not the firefighters or the cops or the EMT's. Please forget it. I need to leave this thread.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Star for you.

I understand that we are on different sides of the political fence, and I agree with your assessment that I don't often show my compassionate side. I'm a redneck that has very thick skin, so I can understand where I come off as an asshole. I apologize for my bluntness...

That said, I have a family as well, most being in the Medical field and know the actions from EVERYONE, were not proper protocols. It truly saddens me.

Again, sorry for not portraying my nice side more often, but I'm a jerk. Deal with it!

a reply to: Shamrock6

I must not have gotten my point across properly.

I understand that the scene has to be clear before paramedics come in, but in this case, paramedics weren't allowed in until it was to late.

Again, I hate the FF memo, but damn, Sandy Hook has so many issues it's hard to ignore.

For me, watching first responders yell, 'That's not how this works", raises my eye brows a bit.

No matter who's responsible for that horrible day, I want to see them hanging from a tree!

Kids are off limits,period!

Much like the disaster at Littleton Colorado only they waited 3 hours.

The issue is this:

Why Newtown police, upon discovering an additional 25 wounded, said nothing.

This is the crux of the case.

No one in the outside world knew this was a mass casualty event. There is no excuse--none--for Newtown police failing to tell dispatch that the patient count had jumped from two, to 27.

Clearly they were occupied with something else.

That something else was the fact that one of their own guys had just executed a kid who'd already been cuffed, and who looked to be about 12 years old.

a reply to: Zephyranth

That will happen when there are no paramedics attending to the injured. Allegedly they let the cops decide everyone was already beyond help. Nice work. Then again, only one of dozens of glaring absurd inconsistencies surrounding SH.

a reply to: Zephyranth

it amazes me that so many people in this thread misread what is actually written in the report , and or extrapolate erroneosly from it .

further - the police were not onmicient or onmipotent - when faced with a threat of unknown magnitude - you dont send in one man - then another etc etc

the " they should have " mentality - safe from your computer station with the benefit of hindsight may make " sense " to you - but hey - you are just sat there - and whatever they had done - you will find " fault "

a reply to: KawRider9

Yea I realized later on I may have misunderstood you.

We agree we were just talking about the same thing from different angles. My bad man

The "scene wasn't safe" claim literally has nothing to do with police responsibility to notify dispatch that many regional ambulances would be needed once the scene WAS safe.

It would be half an hour before dispatcher Bob Nute was even aware this was a mass casualty incident. The emotion in his voice after he finally gets word is palpable. He knows what it means that there are not two, but dozens, down, and that no one told him.

This is NOT about indicting first responders who made genuine errors. This is about the state of Connecticut lying to the world about those mistakes, and failing to alert every town in America that they need re-training in order to avoid duplicating these mistakes.

And of course, beyond that, there does remain the question of WHY not one NPD man informed dispatch of the jump in patient numbers upon seeing rooms 10 and 8.

a reply to: Zephyranth

You have made some of the absolute best points i have read on SH...


Thanks for making me think.

a reply to: Zephyranth

The saddest part is that schools are a gun free zone. If schools are responsible enough to teach our children, for at least 12 years, then there ought to be someone(s) responsible enough on campus to handle a firearm in a situation like this.

a reply to: Zephyranth

This thread should be hot and trending but I'm afraid the title doesn't evoke the reality of what's behind it. Had the title been Some Sandy Hook victims died unnecessarily says American College of Surgeons study group we would be on page 40 of posts by now.

There were radio transmissions that hinted at the scale of the massacre but you are correct when you say dispatcher Nute was not made aware of how many casualties there were until it was too late to save them. It was obvious from the get-go something was very wrong with the entire story, too many elements were changed in fact nearly EVERY element changed except the location!
Here's the short list off the top of my head:
Shooter mis-identified as brother
Wrong motive given (jealously of mother's "students")
Shooter's mother claimed connected to school (there was none)
Dead mother at wrong location (home, not school)
Wrong murder weapon counts - went from 2 handguns, then 4 handguns, then 2 handguns and a rifle, finally 2 handguns a rifle and a shotgun)
Claims of murder victims in Hoboken, NJ (father and brother's gf said killed)

Like I said that is a short list.
How could anyone fail to question the event after they gave out so much false information?
You can't blame the media because the media always said "officials close to the case say" or similar.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I'm not sure what it is about my language that is so difficult to understand. The information should be incorporated into first responder training exercises. That would be EMS, Police, Fire Dept. They ought to well be able to keep each other honest. The general public does not benefit and really can only be hurt and haunted by this knowledge.

Wait... are you saying that the government intentionally let them die? Muddied the waters on purpose?

a reply to: Asktheanimals

The biggest red flag for me is that parents were not allowed to view their children's bodies.

Having watched Law Enforcement procedures moments after the Columbine shooting that doesn't surprise me at all.

I also remembering Law Enforcement burning more than 20 children to Death at WACO and blocking fire and EMT rescue from intervening.

a reply to: queenofswords

Well some of them did have open casket funerals, and I want to say that it has been shown the parents were allowed to at some point IIRC.

This revelation would somewhat explain how the shooter managed to kill so many.

I remember that quite a few people were questioning his precision aim and how he was so efficient.

Maybe he wasn't such a great shot after all eh....

a reply to: verylowfrequency

Except Columbine was the very genesis for a complete revamping of law enforcement tactics in an active shooter response. So trying to correlate that shooting to SH isn't going to work.

The response was botched. The tactics weren't remotely the same.