Army To Recruiters: Treat Armed Citizens as Security Threat

originally posted by: snowspirit
a reply to: antar

"I'm sure the citizens mean well, but we cannot assume this in every case and we do not want to advocate this behavior," according to the Army Command Operations

That good guy with the gun "protecting" people, might not really be a good guy.
How can they tell?

In the case of the Pigs, you're right no that one!

Derek

Meh.

If the military cares about keeping its staff from being shot, then they have the means to do something about it.

originally posted by: antar
This breaks my heart so deeply, my beloved and most admired and respected Brother passed recently, knowing him better than anyone I would say if he had any regrets it would be that he was unable to go out in a blaze of glory defending this beautiful country from the fascist regimes that seek to destroy our very way life and freedoms.

He was not ex but yes a Vet. He was the most Brave, honest, loyal patriotic man I have ever known.

He was a private member here, read only, and the most intelligent person I have ever met.

He walked his talk, was ready willing and able defend you and me at a moments notice 24/7/365

Wish I could have met him, sounds like the kind of guy I could have a few beers with while fishing.

So sorry for your loss, I couldn't imagine losing my brother, I don't know if I would want a world without him in it.

originally posted by: antar
a reply to: Boscowashisnamo

I have seen where on the internet armchair idiots wreck it for the true defenders, watchmen, warriors. This is different and like zap suggest cannot come without risk, but even police, and military at the highest levels have individuals who are coo coo.

I am a believer in the sheep/sheepdog/wolf paradigm, and find it applicable in this discussion. Sheepdogs, in their innate protective roles can be found in all segments of our society, even among those that took the post in front of recruiting offices.

www.artofmanliness.com...

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Meh.

If the military cares about keeping its staff from being shot, then they have the means to do something about it.

It isn't their call though, it is the politicians call.

Guess what they care about, the troops safety is somewhere below lunch today, and if their mistress deleted those photos like she was told.

Don't know why but surely a member of the armed forces in uniform should be able to at least be able to carry a pistol assuming they're trained properly on the rules of engagement on native soil and weapon handling sp why should they be considered any less than any one else?

Even as a brit we consider them the armed forces...if they aint armed then what?

originally posted by: Boscowashisnamo

originally posted by: antar
a reply to: Boscowashisnamo

I have seen where on the internet armchair idiots wreck it for the true defenders, watchmen, warriors. This is different and like zap suggest cannot come without risk, but even police, and military at the highest levels have individuals who are coo coo.

I am a believer in the sheep/sheepdog/wolf paradigm, and find it applicable in this discussion. Sheepdogs, in their innate protective roles can be found in all segments of our society, even among those that took the post in front of recruiting offices.

www.artofmanliness.com...

Great analogy, I see it the same way.

The only protection from the wolves out there, are hard men capable and willing to do violent and terrible things to ensure the sheep stay safe.

My favorite analogy for this is the honey badger.

Nothing on this earth, not bears, nor lions or even a pack of wolves wants a piece of that little fella.

Because if you come for trouble, that little guy is gonna give you much more than you bargained for.

a reply to: johnwick

Thats where I am at and you are right, but dont make me cry again...

This Man was the most gentle soul ever, a huge heart and he had all of our backs without a shred of doubt in his duty.

a reply to: johnwick

The overwhelming majority of people with stars on their shoulders are more politician than military. The ones that don't play the game get gone.

Perhaps if those charged with taking care of the military were more interested in that rather than playing political games, I would agree with your assessment. The ones saying recruiters shouldn't be armed are, by and large, senior military.

a reply to: antar
Who knows. Probably something in the works, another proxy war that's not so proxy is what I am saying. Two people I work with got called by army recruiters, there both not typical military people. One guy in fact got one of those hangers on his apartment door two days ago, had his name on it and everything.

The guy is past his prime and not exactly fit, but it takes all kinds now a days and there is more to the armed forces then ground infantry. And the other guy is just teenager but he said he looked it up online, just to see, now they keep calling him to sign up. So who knows, not likely having anything to do with civilians probably the revamping wars in the middle east or stationed in Europe now, the whole Russia/ UN dispute, which you know, if you think American forces are not going to be involved, you have likely been living under a rock for the past 200 years.

Last time they were looking for recruitment this much was when they were starting the Iraq and Afgan wars. Would be cool if we actually go to war with Russia, even if its going to be more proxy wars> Always wanted to see who would win in a fight, all these experts and rowdy boys seem to think America with its technical prowess will win out. However I am not so sure, likely more economical wars and hitmans while the army sweeps in after same old same old, more a business transaction corporate takeover then actual all out war, but then again I can say the same thing about WW1 And 2. All depending on just what you know about those two fiascoes.

Which if things get heated up and the war machine gets revved up again, it would mean that at home, you know last time in the cold war happened, would not want any commies infiltrating things now would we. Its good to keep an eye on the citizenry, in fact its prudent planing for any war campaign and basic preparations.

But who knows, we shall see I suppose.

originally posted by: Maxatoria
Don't know why but surely a member of the armed forces in uniform should be able to at least be able to carry a pistol assuming they're trained properly on the rules of engagement on native soil and weapon handling sp why should they be considered any less than any one else?

Even as a brit we consider them the armed forces...if they aint armed then what?

Federal troops being armed off US bases with live ammunition presents many legal problems. And outside of the Marines and some in the Army almost none of them have side arms training. Federal troops killing an American civilian presents a real issue in particular if an accident occurs. On top of that just since this shooting a Navy recruiter shot himself in the leg at the office and one of the civilian accidentally discharged his rifle in the parking lot. Arming all the recruiters would lead to more accidental or on purpose shootings, killing far more than any attack.

a reply to: antar

The country needs to stop focusing so much attention on the voices of the extremists on both ends of the spectrum. We are lost as a nation, and we need more silent majority citizens(R's and D's) to start speaking louder and making more of a ruckus.

I know we like civil discussion based on logic and reasoning, but that isn't getting any attention in today's #ed up society.

Veteran, civilian, poor, rich, man or woman, it doesn't matter. Veterans really should take the lead on this and speak out against the idiocy of gun free recruitment/military zones in general. The people we send to protect us around the world should be able to at least protect themselves at home.

It's like they want to set up perfect scenarios for criminals/terrorists to commit atrocities with these gun free zones.

Worst part of all is the fact Obama waited so long to lower the flag after the shooting happened. He was too busy commuting the sentences of big time coc aine dealers.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: johnwick

The overwhelming majority of people with stars on their shoulders are more politician than military. The ones that don't play the game get gone.

Perhaps if those charged with taking care of the military were more interested in that rather than playing political games, I would agree with your assessment. The ones saying recruiters shouldn't be armed are, by and large, senior military.

Because senior military know that a military member on federal duty, with a federally owned weapon shooting and killing an American citizen in a strip mall no matter the circumstances opens up a huge can of worms. The Posse Comitatus Act makes the entire idea legally iffy. Now National Guardsmen and Coast Guardsmen could legally carry. Perhaps that is a work around if they were all in the same building. Still you would have to have specific training since most of the military is not trained with side arms. And you would still have to deal with likely losing more people a year to weapon accidents on purposed shootings than any sort of attack. I mean just look at this list History of shootings at military installations

"Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security".

Pretty soon, they'll have armed guards outside every recruiting office in America, thanks to a random shooting at one out of thousands.

And Americans, silly creatures they are, will welcome the sight of armed troops on their streets and in their shopping malls, and thank the Government for providing their security.

a reply to: MrSpad

Oh wow, stupidity at it's finest as far as the guy discharging accidentally. As for the Recruiter shooting himself in the leg, first thought that came to mind was taking one for the team. And when you think of the safety and legal protocols in place to keep accidents from injuring civilians by Military, nothing really adds up anymore because everything that was in place no longer seems to apply unless it is for the greater good of the policy makers sitting in cushy offices making decisions based on political schemes that do nothing more than strip the rights and freedoms away from the civilians.

We are so young a Nation and have to make mistakes but the wolves will try to devour us while we are down, and we will see down in the future such as never before, so I stand by my own personal thoughts and instinct on this in that whether it is at a recruiting station after a tragic incident such as just happened or a small neighborhood near you, these Patriots are willing and able to protect and defend without hesitation or compromise.

a reply to: Danke

Well I started to disagree with you, but then read further and think you have some good points all in all. What gets me is how everything that I have ever been raised to understand is turned upside down right now, maybe I am old, but the ones who they call the extremists, the terrorists and such are not exactly the same as I do.

a reply to: MrSpad

That was an interesting read. Makes one think you know? Categorize the different types of murders and the pattern is concerning. Seems to be ramping up steadily. I thought that your link was going to be about the accidents that happen at Military installations, boot camp or recon missions as I am sure they are many over history.

I heard today that one of those civilian guards standing outside of an Ohio recruiting office ACCIDENTALLY DISCHARGED HIS WEAPON IN THE PARKING LOT!

Bullet went into the asphalt and no one got hurt, but it could just as easily have ricocheted and hit an innocent person.

He was charged with discharging a weapon inside the city limits and Police took his gun until he makes his court appearance.

How's that for a "Barney Fife" of a reason?

Hell, I wouldn't patronize any of the businesses located anywhere near these recruiting offices that are being "guarded" by armed civilians.

While "some" may be well intentioned, IMO most are just a collection of under trained gun exibitionist who, (for lack of a Bundy Ranch rally to attend) have too much time on their hands.

originally posted by: antar
a reply to: MrSpad

That was an interesting read. Makes one think you know? Categorize the different types of murders and the pattern is concerning. Seems to be ramping up steadily. I thought that your link was going to be about the accidents that happen at Military installations, boot camp or recon missions as I am sure they are many over history.

War time ramps up the heavy drinking, spouse abuse and suicides which is the main reason people on base are not armed. This is the dark side where military service can lead. Nobody likes to think about it or talk about so nothing ever really gets done about it. Toss guns in and things get real bad.

a reply to: antar

I can explain it very quick for you.
An armed civilian already accidentally discharged their weaponat a recruiting center the were protecting from imaginery enemies.