Lets discuss water baptism..

Hello. How is your day going?

So I'm interested in hearing others perspective on what they think of water baptism within and out of the context of Christianity. I'm interested in the history, symbolism, potential origins, potential meanings and so on and so forth.

From the biblical perspective

ANSWER: Baptism is the ceremony that those who are truly repentant of their sins must undergo in order to be forgiven and receive the gift of God's Holy Spirit. Being baptized is a requirement of salvation (Mark 16:16; Titus 3:5). The full symbolism of this simply ceremony can be understood when one accepts the Biblical teaching that believers should be COMPLETLY immersed in water (see Acts 2:38, 5:30 - 32, Luke 3:3, 24:46 - 47, Romans 5 - 6 and Colossians 2:12).

Some teach that a person be can properly baptized by merely sprinkling, pouring, etc. water on them. This belief is not only unsubstantiated in the Bible, it clouds and obscures what the baptismal service truly represents!

Once a person is baptized, the laying on of hands ceremony occurs (see Acts 6:6, 8:15 - 17, James 5:14 - 15, etc.). This service should be carried out by those who are mature in age and in the faith (they have been a Christian for 10, 15 or more years). They do NOT have to be "ordained" or organizationally approved before they can participate. Hands are placed on the believers head and shoulders, and prayers are made to God that he (if it is his will) grant the person the gift of his Holy Spirit (Acts 8:14 - 15, 17, 19:4 - 6).

Baptism is a visible declaration that a person has repented of their sins, accepted Jesus as his or her personal Savior, and is willing to commit their entire life in humble obedience and service to God (Acts 2:36 - 38).

Lets discuss.

a reply to: onequestion

Let's discuss.
[snip[

So...

Peter 3:21. and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection

This is incorrect...

The purpose of a Baptism is to give an opportunity to those that always wanted to dunk a person in water and not get arrested.

a reply to: onequestion

I herd a interesting summary about baptism awhile back that got me to thinking . It was about baptism and circumcision and was something to the effect that what can and cant be said about one ,also applies to the other .Not sure if I can track it down but I will give it a try .

I'm glad you've brought this discussion up, I have a fairly unique yet (at least in my opinion) very interesting view on what water baptism means symbolically.

Water baptism is said to be a requirement in order for someone to be "born again", at least in Christian theology. In my opinion this is symbolically true, but not in the Christian view. In my opinion, water baptism symbolizes someone's immersion into the amniotic fluid of the womb.

What happens before someone is born? The mother's water breaks. To be baptized into water is to be immersed in the womb of your mother. To be born (again) is to come out of the water, or to literally be born from the womb.

John says he baptized with water, he also came out of the wilderness. What does the wilderness symbolize? Mother nature or Earth. John symbolizes the bodily baptism that constitutes the gestation period of a pregnant woman.

John also says that someone would come after him that would baptize with fire. This fire baptism, in my opinion, symbolizes the opposite of birth, a.k.a. death. Those who are baptized with fire are said to walk in the Spirit, when you die you are no longer tethered to your body, you are released from it and you walk in the Spirit, not the body. You are tossed about with the wind (Spirit), you can hear it but you do not know where it is going.

John also says that the one who comes to baptize by fire has surpassed him because he came before him. This in my mind means that the fire baptism came before the water baptism as well as after. What does this point toward? Cycles. We have all already been baptized with fire and water and have been "born again" by the fact that we are here right now. We were born into this world through our water birth (baptism) and that water birth was preceded by a fire baptism (death) in a previous life, we are also heading toward another fire baptism.

Reincarnation is what this symbolism is alluding to in my opinion. To be taken up in the Spirit is to be baptized with fire (death) whereas to be immersed into the water is to be baptized with water (birth).

Water puts out fire, this means that when someone is born, the fire baptism (death) from their previous life is "put out" and they are once again immersed in the waters of life.

a reply to: onequestion

Before we were human we were mammal and before we were mammal we were lizard and on and on back to the seas from which we emerged. Water baptism to me is getting back to our aquatic origins. Well, you asked.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I was with you all the way until the reincarnation part.

a reply to: onequestion

What's wrong with reincarnation? The resurrection is what symbolizes our rebirth. We suffer on the cross (it was most likely a [Asherah] pole) or within this world, we then die and are born anew in a new body. It's the cycles of the universe, everything works in cycles so why would we as life itself be any different?

This is a 10 part audio podcast by Dr. Micheal Heiser on Baptism for any one interested


www.nakedbiblepodcast.com...

www.nakedbiblepodcast.com...

www.nakedbiblepodcast.com...

www.nakedbiblepodcast.com...

www.nakedbiblepodcast.com...

www.nakedbiblepodcast.com...

www.nakedbiblepodcast.com...

www.nakedbiblepodcast.com...

www.nakedbiblepodcast.com...

www.nakedbiblepodcast.com...

Water Baptism pre-dates Christianity by thousands of years, and was practiced in Egypt, Babylon, and other places. Baptism is a "pagan"practice that symbolized different things depending on the religion. Purification, initiation, washing away of sins(before Christianity), salvation, spiritual rebirth, ritual cleansing, etc. Homer even mentions using a form of baptism to sanctify a whole army.

a reply to: onequestion

I will look into the verses in acts later. But acts makes it clear that the Holy Spirit can come upon the faithful prior to water baptism.

As the verse in Peter implies, water baptism is symbolic of a spiritual experience.

The shedding of one's sefish desires, to be born into a more loving and graceful body.

The water represents the cleansing of one's soul as it returns to it's true purpose. To sacrifice the self for the good of humanity.

However Paul was not interested in water baptism. He did not think that the Gentiles needed to learn ritual salvation. Paul was under the impression that faith in Jesus's message was enough. If you believe in sacrificing self for humanity faith has trumped the ritual.

The ritual is not required for God to Love you. Nor does the ritual give anyone the right to be
self righteous.

But many Christians say take a bath or God doesn't Love you. I never could believe that, it sounds like the words of the insane.

This planet is the only place for light years in every direction that can sustain life. Liquid water is the most important requirement.

Literally, the water of life.

All that blessing and biblical fairy tale stuff is special effects.

I have wondered if this is relating to the zodiac sign one is born under. We know of the symbology involved with the fish possibly relating to the zodiac sign of Pisces and Jesus speaking of a man holding a pitcher of water(Aquarius) ). Also the worship of the bull (Taurus) and the blowing of the rams horn or shofar (aries). Could being born of fire or water be like being born under a zodiac sign pertaining to one of the elements?

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I believe we are all conceived and have a tail for the first few days and...we are all females too.
Water is the sign of life and to be baptized in water is to cleanse the body so the Holy spirit can be received. I was 5 when Baptised and all I recall is wearing my purdy black shoes an my lacey dress. I slapped my sister afterwards when walking out of church and Father told me I was well on my way to hell.
I am good with the Creator now.

Oddly enough I did a water baptism today on the solstice around noon. Also coincidentally yesterday was my birthday.

This wasn't times out to happen this way it just worked out this way.

Any observations?

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Thanks!

a reply to: onequestion
New Testament baptism is a symbolic death-and-resurrection process.
Going down into the water symbolises death.
Coming out of it again symbolises resurrection.

The key explanatory passage is Romans ch6.
"All of us who were baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death" (v3)
Baptised into is further explained in v5;
"For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his".
In other words, the whole thing is a self-identification with both parts of what happened to Christ Jesus, the death on Good Friday and the Resurrection which followed.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Being baptized into Christ is the fire baptism. Jesus baptized with fire, not water.

Paul saying being baptized into Christ (fire baptism according to John the Baptist) is being baptized into death actually aligns with my first post where death is the fire baptism and birth is the water baptism.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
All the commentators think Paul is talking about the water-baptism.
The action of descending and re-emerging perfectly fits the death/new life imagery.
"Into" is not "by".

a reply to: DISRAELI

Acts 19 states that Paul baptized people in Jesus' name who had already had John's baptism. I think this points toward John's baptism being different than Jesus', and even John said Jesus would baptize with fire. If you are baptized in Jesus' name you are baptized with fire not water.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I was making my point from the passage in Romans, and the concept of "baptism by fire" has no relevance to the language being used by Paul.

First, consider that word "into". Not just "in the name of" Jesus but INTO Christ Jesus.
When you go INTO something, you become part of it, or part of its contents.
That is Paul's meaning here.
When we are "baptised INTO Christ", we become part of him, and on THAT basis share in his death and resurrection, as described in the following verses.
The action of immersion baptism expresses that belief;
The act of going down into the water corresponds with sharing in his death.
The act of coming out of the water corresponds with sharing in his resurrection.
I doubt if youwill find any commentator who understands the passage any other way.
Romans ch6 is talking about water-baptism.