Could narcissism be good for humanity overall?

What if only a narcissist (or a person with a similar condition) could look at life in the following way:

"I didn't fail 1,000 times. The light bulb was an invention with 1,000 steps." - Thomas Edison

I have no idea if Edison was a narcissist but in my own experience, it often takes a narcissist (or a person with a similar condition) to believe that they can achieve things that seem impossible to outsiders.

Narcissism (or a similar condition) may be the secret ingredient that pushes people to new heights, thus pushing humanity to new heights as well.

I have no data to back up this thought. I only have my own experience. And, according to my experience, narcissists are often willing to take incredible risks (often not even realizing that they are risks) and to attempt things that others wouldn't dream of (often because of their unusually strong belief in themselves).

I concede that narcissism is dangerous in personal and professional relationships but in this thread I want to explore something else. I'm not proposing a theory here, I'm just asking a question:

Could narcissism be good for humanity overall?

a reply to: Profusion

No. No it could not. Narcissism would see people make only advances which benefit them, invent things and horde them, or charge through the nose for them, somewhat similar to what we have today. These things are not good for our species. Selfless effort helps the human race move forward far more.

a reply to: Profusion

Narcissism is part of the problem.

People who can't empathize with others are capable of anything.

Empires are ruled by them.

a reply to: Profusion

Exactly what intrptr said. It helps to have psychopathic traits if you want to rise to the top.

A good point to ponder though... I massive belief in one's own strengths leads to success. But it would probably be to the detriment of others.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Profusion

No. No it could not. Narcissism would see people make only advances which benefit them, invent things and horde them, or charge through the nose for them, somewhat similar to what we have today. These things are not good for our species. Selfless effort helps the human race move forward far more.

Narcissism would see people make only advances which benefit them

I know a narcissist (in my opinion, take it for what it's worth, I know this person really well) that started a little business that provides educational services. They have busted their butt to provide the best educational services they could because they realized that the better service and results they provided for their customers, the more profits they would earn. As the results improved, the earnings have improved for this person. They are earning about 300% more than they earned just a few years ago.

In the marketplace, it comes down to results and supply and demand. So, generally speaking (I know there are major exceptions), the winner in the marketplace is whoever provides the best service for the best price regardless of whether they're a narcissist or a psychopath or whatever. Essentially, you must maximize results to maximize profits (generally speaking). Your proclivities mean nothing in that equation.

Based on my experience (generally speaking), the marketplace keeps everyone in line and on track in the sense of providing the best service possible for customers.

This particular person was one of the people that I was thinking of when I made this thread. They never would have started their business and made it successful without being a narcissist in my opinion. And there are many others I've known who are in similar situations.

Reflecting upon my brother, who has narcissist personality disorder, I have to say no.

The problem is that his delusions are stronger than reality.
He believes himself to be superior and special, with no proof necessary. There is nothing he has done or achieved to back up that idea. He perceives he has the potential for amazing things, and that is all that is needed- it doesn't have to be actually done. He claims he is capable, but just doesn't want to right now (he claims he worked out how to create black holes, for example) and anyone who doesn't agree with that is simply ignorant , stupid and wrong.

This dynamic alone works for him. He never ever has any proof that he can't do the things he claims, or that he ISN'T a Übermensch, and this way, just about everyone he runs across doesn't agree, which supports his belief that everyone is stupid and inferior.

If he were to actually try to achieve something and risk failing, it would destroy his delusion.

He is homeless, addicted to oxy, and more often in prison than out. Stupid superficial mondaine activities like working a job, or paying for a roof over his head are beneath a being whose soul moves in higher spheres of consciousness and has for mission being the leader/savior of the homeless. (something like that, I don't remember his exact words).

The really weird part is that he actually DOES get followers! He always has a few sad souls who do his bidding, and somehow feel special because they are the chosen few, proclaimed superior to the rest of humanity by virtue of recognizing his divine nature.

No. No... perhaps they are not all the same, but I can't help but say no.

Though a healthy and solid ego, complete with a good dose of self confidence and esteem, (amongst other qualities) yes.

Let's look at the meanings of (narcissism)...

(Quote "narcissism"

"excessive or erotic interest in oneself and one's physical appearance.
synonyms: vanity, self-love, self-admiration, self-absorption, self-obsession, conceit, self-centeredness, self-regard, egotism, egoism
"his emotional development was hindered by his mother's narcissism"
antonyms: modesty
Psychology
extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a personality type.
Psychoanalysis
self-centeredness arising from failure to distinguish the self from external objects" (unquote).

I personally do not think (narcissism) is a good motivational tool; I think intelligence, knowledge and striving to learn mixed in with gratefulness and humility are much better.

a reply to: Profusion

Mao, Stallin, Hitler, Napoleon, Henry the 8Th, etc...I do not think there are many people that came in contact with these narcissistic jerks think any good came from it. Does it take a certain amount of selfishness to pursue ideas and turn them into reality, yes. Great inventors are consumed and obsessive, but not necessarily narcissists.

Tyrants and Dictators have a god/devil complex that makes them extremely dangerous and NO, not good for the overall humanity.

a reply to: Profusion

It would all depend upon how and what direction that person was driven. Did they feel good about themselves in helping the poor or in creating an empire? It is a facet of human nature that can be either corruptible or magnificent. Sometimes difficult to see the difference between the two.

Let's qualify some things before we continue:

Primary Narcissism

Freud suggested that exclusive self-love might not be as abnormal as previously thought and might even be a common component in the human psyche. He argued that narcissism "is the libidinal complement to the egoism of the instinct of self-preservation," or, more simply, the desire and energy that drives one’s instinct to survive. He referred to this as primary narcissism.[16]

Everyone has nacrissism. It's a question of what degree, and how one uses it that would cause someone to judge you as a narcissist, saint, or whatever else.

Social instinct could be thought of as collective narcissism. We favor our species survival over other life, so bond together and smile/laugh away with rituals, and actions that are to harm other species.

Another thing which needs to be seen to unmuddy the water would be ego-will. You can have a great will of ego without being overly egotistical. It would depend on intent guiding your words and actions. I think great men need larger than average will of ego. They direct their need towards goods greater than their selves. Ideas to benefit the species, and what not.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Profusion

No. No it could not. Narcissism would see people make only advances which benefit them, invent things and horde them, or charge through the nose for them, somewhat similar to what we have today. These things are not good for our species. Selfless effort helps the human race move forward far more.

I kind of agree, but at the same time this word 'narcissism' is tossed around ridiculously these days. Someone is self conscious? Narcissist. Someone doesn't evaluate themselves? Narcissist. Someone sensitive to criticism? Narcissist. Someone doesn't like showing up to social events? Narcissist. Someone takes selfies? Narcissist. Someone shows too much interest in social events? Narcissist. Someone shy about showing their work to people? Narcissist. Someone shows their work to people too much? Narcissist. Someone doesn't value other's opinions? Narcissist. Someone values other's opinions too much? Narcissist. etc etc etc

Actually some of the most narcissistic people I know can't wait to help people. It's how they define themselves. They have to help with absolutely everything. They're the 'nicest' people to the casuals at the work place, but managers hate them. Why? They integrate themselves into everything and become part of processes they shouldn't, but the casuals will defend them to death. They enjoy being liked so much they will give you anything for that like.

Point I'm making ... self regard can be earned or unearned. People can be complete jerks internally but mega helpful in every other way. Someone can be a deeply caring saint on the inside but a complete jibbering emotional mess on a day to day basis. To summarize though ...

Most of the time when someone calls an individual a narcissist it's an excuse not to like that person and do nothing about it. Sure, it's not always the case but when people tell stories of narcissists that stole their money and did all kinds of other crazy things they're usually talking about criminals or psychopaths. When people throw the word narcissist around in the work place or on a web board they're generally saying more about themselves than anyone else IMO but it's amazing how many people will accept it without question.

If I come to work and announce that I hate it when Jim talks about kite surfing, and I don't like the person being a self conscious idiot I'm a bully. If I announce that Jim is a narcissist everyone will sit around in a cozy circle analyzing Jim's behavior to fit the profile completely ignoring the fact that it fits just about everyone. They will all nod sagely and we will officially agree to bully Jim in subtle ways that wouldn't be accepted under any other context.

The moral of this post is it's really hard to say what a narcissist will actually do in any situation. In fact it's really hard to accurately call someone a narcissist.

Answer this, if a narcissist wants to be a saint and succeeds are they still a narcissist? #NoTrueNarcissist #EndAmateurPsychoanalysis

Its possible...Its possible.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Profusion

No. No it could not. Narcissism would see people make only advances which benefit them, invent things and horde them, or charge through the nose for them, somewhat similar to what we have today. These things are not good for our species. Selfless effort helps the human race move forward far more.

Well said.

I think a lot of people have some form of a guilty conscience about narcissism, especially if they've been called a narcissist before, maybe because they were a bit self-righteous about something.

Can a person be truly great, as a fact, or is it always just because they must be a narcissist?
If a person knows they're "low", yet is self-absorbed with the intent and ideas of helping others, the world, and themselves lastly yet equally importantly, are they a narcissist?

If a lowly person decides, for whatever reason, to focus entirely, almost selfishly on themselves, for the sake of their own health, ability to even be alive, their future .. financially or cosmetically or spiritually or philosophically or circumstantially or otherwise, are they a narcissist?

Is Introversion Narcissism?

I think the question should be, "Could Introversion be good for humanity overall?"

To which I'd say yes, and it's one of the main reasons we have any or most of the advances in any field we choose to look at.

Question: Does anyone reading this think that Jesus Christ was a narcissist? I would enjoy reading your replies.

a reply to: r0xor

Are you trying to say you think introversion and narcissism are the same thing? I surely hope not.

originally posted by: pl3bscheese
a reply to: r0xor

Are you trying to say you think introversion and narcissism are the same thing? I surely hope not.

Not, quite the opposite.

I'm trying to say introversion gets commonly misidentified as narcissism.

a reply to: r0xor

Okay I must have misread, and would agree with that. Extroverts simply can't come up with a reasonable explanation for what's going on with the introvert, so judge harshly that which is simply incomprehensible to them. They got the majority to back them. I think what's going on when they make this judgment is more along the lines of, "If I were to act the way he does, I would have a certain intent.. I would be narcissistic"... Well we're all different *shrugs*

a reply to: Profusion

No. Rampant individualism is the reason behind the degradation of values (at least American ones--there have been legitimate studies on this).

Rampant individualism--which includes narcissism--doesn't involve empathy. Therefore it is not good for anyone.

Everyone is an individual who is unique, but everyone has faults and everyone has gifts. Therefore in that way we are equal.

The problem with a narcissist is that they have a personality disorder. Therefore that means they cannot look at life in a different way. Which is why said disorders are so difficult treat (basically totally impossible). Because they see no issue with their actions. Narcissists can also be sociopaths (or rather, sociopaths are always narcissists) --which is literally the opposite of being good for humanity because sociopaths lack humanity.

I think you're trying to say that psychopathy (which I believe goes along with genius, at least on some levels) can be good for humanity. Watch this video: www.ted.com...

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Uh. I disagree. I'm an ENTJ. And I understand introverts quite well. Possibly because I'm an only child. One of my best friends is a huge introvert. I have been friends (and am friends) with many introverts. I value them highly. They are necessary just as extroverts are necessary. Together they can be quite the unbeatable force. I've never met an extrovert who harshly judged an introvert. In fact, as an extrovert, I go out of my way to befriend introverts. I stick up for them. Because I understand. And because I want to understand more.

It sounds like you don't understand extroverts (externally focused). My introvert friends also have issues with this. Introverts (internally focused) sound like they're probably more narcissistic than extroverts by definition alone. Internally focused = focused on self = (can lead to) narcissism. But introverts help teach extroverts to look within. It's a give and take. Most people are somewhere in between the two. Both of them have issues with self-doubt. But like my good friend has a big problem with taking others' advice because he thinks that he knows best. Like he doesn't even hear you because he's so in his own head. So he ends up acting like an idiot sometimes and has trouble changing his actions. Extroverts who get stick in a rut being self-absorbed and superficial can also run into similar problems.

Which is why balance is key. It's good to walk in others' shoes. As long as you try to understand.

But no, I don't think either one has more tendency toward narcissism than the other. Narcissism is a personality disorder. Not a defining trait of personality types.

We've had one in the white house for nearly 8 years now. Isn't that a perfect case to study?

a reply to: rukia

MBTI, eh? GL with that. Jung is rolling in his grave.