France Moves to Make ‘Conspiracy Theories’ Illegal by Government Decree

a reply to: wmd_2008
a reply to: JUhrman

Holocaust denial was already a criminal offence in France and elsewhere in Europe. There was no need to go after 'conspiracies' in general to prevent it. J-M Le Pen, Robert Faurisson for ex. have already be brought to justice for similar offence.

I don't know what the Frenchs expect from this new legislation.

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
a reply to: TrueBrit

So... basically, France is enacting a tyrannical law making it illegal, to... talk about the government being tyrannical. Or in other words, they are making it illegal to point out the obvious.

I see France has De-evolutionized their logic.

They have not done any such thing. The thread title is FALSE.

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: wmd_2008
a reply to: JUhrman

Holocaust denial was already a criminal offence in France and elsewhere in Europe. There was no need to go after 'conspiracies' in general to prevent it. J-M Le Pen, Robert Faurisson for ex. have already be brought to justice for similar offence.

I don't know what the Frenchs expect from this new legislation.

There is NO new legislation.

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: wasaka


Had a quick look at one of the links

"[Anti-Semitism] maintains conspiracy theories that spread without limits. Conspiracy theories that have, in the past, led to the worst "(...)" [The] answer is to realize that conspiracy theories are disseminated through the Internet and social networks. Moreover, we must remember that it is words that have in the past prepared extermination. We need to act at the European level, and even internationally, so that a legal framework can be defined, and so that Internet platforms that manage social networks are held to account and that sanctions be imposed for failure to enforce" [1].

Looks like they are talking about holocaust deniers

NOT conspiracy theories in general

He referred to the conspiracy theories Hitler used, about the Jews, to motivate the Germans in his intent of genocide.
The radical muslims are using the same method with arabic speaking youth in France.

originally posted by: Metallicus
This is another classic example of European Socialism. The rights of the state trump the rights of the individual. Please don't let the moronic European laws come to the US. We already had to fight one war for independence.

Don't worry . I expect that the only thing they will sent to you guys is a box full of duct tape...

It seems there is a movement by all leftists to label any conspiracies as right wing quackery. Obama administration constantly calls out anyone who questions "global warming" as nut-jobs with tin foil hats. Likewise, liberals say only crazy right wingers think chem-trails are real.

This seems to be the liberal strategy--anyone critical of leftist federal policy is a right wing cook.

As a former JFK democrat, I find this disgusting and don't recall such blatant media propaganda in US until Obama. The Obama liberals are focused on dividing people, and they have succeeded.

Since this sounds like a conspiracy, the Obama shills can start bashing me as a nut-job--a badge I'm proud to wear in an age of swines where the one-eyed pig is king.

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Israel - and its behaviour towards the Palestinians - is clearly the main source of animosity against the Jews.

There was hatred towards Jews in Europe for centuries before the establishment of the State of Israel, so no, it has nothing to do with the Palestinian situation.

By making sure every critic of Israel is understood as a critic against all Jews, the Jews plays the classic victimisation card. Diaspora Jews have dual citizenship with Israel. Saying they don't have anything to do with Israel is the most easy way for them to apply the ostrich policy.

There is a clear difference between criticizing the policies of the current Israeli government and blaming all the world's evils on the Jews. The sort of conspiracy theories that Hollande was denouncing are the latter. Be honest: most of the Anti-Semitism in Europe is not out of sympathy with the Palestinians. The Palestinian issue is nothing more than a pretext.

Many prominent Jews are critical of Israel's policies. How many Muslims criticize the Palestinians for killing Israeli civilians? Few, if any.

originally posted by: DJW001

There was hatred towards Jews in Europe for centuries before the establishment of the State of Israel, so no, it has nothing to do with the Palestinian situation.

If it doesn't have anything to do with the Palestinians, it must be because of the Jews themselves then ...

originally posted by: DJW001
There is a clear difference between criticizing the policies of the current Israeli government and blaming all the world's evils on the Jews. The sort of conspiracy theories that Hollande was denouncing are the latter. Be honest: most of the Anti-Semitism in Europe is not out of sympathy with the Palestinians. The Palestinian issue is nothing more than a pretext.

Many prominent Jews are critical of Israel's policies. How many Muslims criticize the Palestinians for killing Israeli civilians? Few, if any.

Probably the same amount as Muslims criticizing Daesh ... too few imo.
First, it is important to make the difference between Israelis and Jews.
Then, when do you consider that the 'jewishness' of an individual is relevant or not in order to understand his motives ?

This is getting way out of topic.

i.e. the false claim in the thread title that "France Moves to Make ‘Conspiracy Theories’ Illegal by Government Decree"

a reply to: JUhrman

Comme en Chine, Valls annonce une armée de blogueurs officiels contre le complotisme

Alors que la Chine a déjà son "armée de l'ombre" depuis une dizaine d'années pour faire la contre-propagande sur le Web, le Premier ministre français Manuel Valls annonce une initiative qui pourrait ne pas être éloignée : une fondation qui aura pour charge d'alimenter des community managers en outils pour diffuser la "parole officielle" contre le djihadisme et le complotisme.

While China already has its "shadow army" for a decade in order to fuel web counter-propaganda, the French prime minister Manuel Valls announced a similar initiative : a foundation aimed at helping community managers by providing them tools in order to spread the "official speech" against djihadism and conspiracies

And Bluesma has a point, indeed there is atm no new regulation in place, the new law should be acted end of this month on the 24th June : article in French. What about the 36 websites that were shut down anyway ?

Another interesting story is the one of the website 'Patrons Voyous', who is under pressure from the the French MEDEF (association of enterprise managers).

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Israel - and its behaviour towards the Palestinians - is clearly the main source of animosity against the Jews.

There was hatred towards Jews in Europe for centuries before the establishment of the State of Israel, so no, it has nothing to do with the Palestinian situation.

By making sure every critic of Israel is understood as a critic against all Jews, the Jews plays the classic victimisation card. Diaspora Jews have dual citizenship with Israel. Saying they don't have anything to do with Israel is the most easy way for them to apply the ostrich policy.

There is a clear difference between criticizing the policies of the current Israeli government and blaming all the world's evils on the Jews. The sort of conspiracy theories that Hollande was denouncing are the latter. Be honest: most of the Anti-Semitism in Europe is not out of sympathy with the Palestinians. The Palestinian issue is nothing more than a pretext.

Many prominent Jews are critical of Israel's policies. How many Muslims criticize the Palestinians for killing Israeli civilians? Few, if any.

Respectfully, I believe you are making a distinction between being anti-semetic and anti-Israeli.

Anti-Semitism has a long history throughout the world. I believe it is greater in Europe and even more prominent in Asia.

However both seem to be on a sharp rise in recent times, throughout the world. In my own views, for the first time in my life, I have become strongly anti-Israeli.

Your comments on Muslims are incorrect and biased.

The time has come for moderates amoung both Jews and Muslims to make a clear, unequivocal, vocal and formal break from the more traditional sects of their religions. Silence and a failure to do so will leave them aggregated with the genocidal extremists dominating popular media and thinking.

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

The law of the 24th June isn't about "outlawing conspiracy theories". It's about net monitoring. I'm not saying it's good but honestly it's not different than what is already in place in the US and in the US we can all see the monitoring is not used to close conspiracy sites.

The 36 websites closed weren't closed because of conspiracy theories but because of ties to islamic terrorism and antisemitism.

And the article you linked says specifically the "bloggers army" is aimed at counter attacking djihadists. Not conspiracy theorists in general.

I've no issue to discuss these topics in another thread. Continuing to post here only reinforce the confusion that the French government has something against people like ATS posters when in fact they don't care about them.


This has been posted already and yet as usual most posters prefer to simply feel threatened personally because that's what conspiracy sites are about. To freak out about everything out there trying to get you, even if it's only in your head.

"[Anti-Semitism] maintains conspiracy theories that spread without limits. Conspiracy theories that have, in the past, led to the worst "(...)" [The] answer is to realize that conspiracy theories are disseminated through the Internet and social networks. Moreover, we must remember that it is words that have in the past prepared extermination. We need to act at the European level, and even internationally, so that a legal framework can be defined, and so that Internet platforms that manage social networks are held to account and that sanctions be imposed for failure to enforce" .

Peace. Out

originally posted by: Unity_99
If that happened in any of the first world, saner countries, such as France, here, anywhere that is not ME or theocracy, (I'd just leave somehow there or die trying), my impulse would be to GRAB A BULLHORN. Its illegal, null and void at conception and violates every constitution of those above mentioned countries, so anyone obeying and not growing some really big teeth and yelling even, and taking it to court if necessary, with full economic compensation, in spades, 10 X more than what would normally be asked, should anything go down, thats what you gotta do.

Something being unconstitutional hasn't prevented laws from being passed in twenty years.

It really bothers me that no mod changed the misleading thread title yet. Actually some mods even posted in the thread like the title was real.

I even start wondering if they keep it that way because it's better for the site to have a false but controversial thread title than a true but boring one?

a reply to: Qspeedyrock

". A lot of people are not as stupid as the elite imagine them to be"

Well I don't know where you live but in NA it's about 50% if you read the poles. Take drone killings for example.

You know... I used to think those NWO guys were nuts. It's all done out in the open.

And I used to laugh at all those fosils talking about "the ether." Turns out they were right...

Given current trends I only see things getting more polarised globally. More extreme. More conspiratorial.

Who knows? But France? Give me a break. The voice of reason in a mad world.

a reply to: JUhrman

I don't think any title change would make any difference about the thread content's.

Today, 18th June 2015, is the bicentennial anniversary of the battle of Waterloo. Seems from Belgian perspective the right date to do some French bashing, mostly if we go after what seems to be main characteristic of France : the country of so-called free-speech and human rights.


How do you introduce the difference between racism and anti-semitism in the French law without considering the introduction of a legal definition of a Jewish individual ? Is it in line with the French republican values to consider that a specific ethico-religious group deserves a special treatment ?
Please consider how hard it is, for the Israeli themselves, to define themselves :

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Like I said, I don't disagree with you. It's just completely out of scope of the false thread title "France Moves to Make ‘Conspiracy Theories’ Illegal by Government Decree" and deserves its own thread.

a reply to: JUhrman

Do you know the Frenchs journalists Frédéric Taddeï and Patrick Cohen ? They had a interesting debate the other day about their respective considerations on conspiracies :



Chosen extracts :

1:26
You have a responsability when your run a debate show, not to propagate conspiracy theories. To silence 'sick brains' ... like people who think we never walk on the moon, that 9/11 was faked or that gas chambers never existed.

2:10
Alexandra : People are free to think what they want, no ?
Cohen : NO !
...
You have the right to think what you want first, in the respect of the existing law.
Taddeï : Fine, I never ran into troubles.
Cohen : Negationism ... that's something !

3:25
Taddeï : If I tell you now, that I have suspicions on the fact that Lee Harvey Oswald was the sole shooter involved in the JFK murder. I'm against the official thesis. Am I a conspirationist ? Do I need to be put under arrest ?

IMO, the French gov is more specifically targeting the websites of Dieudonné, Alain Soral, Panamza and likes. In other words, sites that are mainly critics of Israel.

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
IMO, the French gov is more specifically targeting the websites of Dieudonné, Alain Soral, Panamza and likes. In other words, sites that are mainly critics of Israel.

Exactly! I never said anything different! Hence the thread is misleading.