Why do people lie about aliens? An in-depth look at why we can discredit near all stories

.a reply to: JackHill

CSICOP is mocking on the people. They honestly believe we're stupid. They're as bad as the very hoaxers.

You aren't kidding. it's no accident that CSICOP has been charged with fraudulent testing and falsifying data since its inception.

These charges come from everybody from CSICOPS own founding members all the way to Carl Sagan, who was a bit of a fraud himself, so for Sagan to speak against CSICOP is telling indeed.

The OP charged alien abductees with lying, but the more you look at it, it seems the lying is coming from those who deny alien contact.

a reply to: redtic

Really? Out of the trillions upon trillions of stars and the trillions of planets in the universe, you believe that there are no life forms out there capable of interstellar travel? Seems like a mathematical certainty to me.

But I guess if I thought that humans were most advanced life form in the galaxy, I would look at the Kelly-Hopkinsville story a lot differently, too. I may not be able to come up with a plausible explanation, but I would have to rule out any extra-terrestrial involvement.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
a reply to: Harte

In summary, allowing for the heightened expectation prompted by the earlier “flying-saucer” sighting, and for the effects of excitement and nighttime viewing, it seems likely that the famous 1955 Kelly incident is easily explained by a meteor and a pair of territorial owls.

Yeah, because this back-woods family wouldn't know what owls look like. And when you shoot owls, it sounds like you're "hitting the center of a metal bucket." And an owl can't sit on a roof and grab somebody's hair.

I'm sorry, but trying to explain this away as a pair of owls makes as much sense as the "escaped carnival monkeys in silver suits" explanation. When you take all the details into account, there is no real possibility of mis-identification.

Well I never thought I would be agreeing with the ruthless dictator of Latveria, but here I am. When you're right, Von Doom, you're right.

It never ceases to amaze me the outlandish convolutions and mental gymnastics that people leap to when they are desperate to make aliens go away. That CSICOP "explanation" was priceless. How can you say that with a straight face?

a reply to: Scdfa

Doom is pleased. I shall allow you to live.

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

It's an insult to say if someone speaks their mind they are trying to insult you.

Hold on there. You didn't say it was your opinion, you said it was a fact. Remember?

So spare us the insulted act, it was you who insulted all of us.
What did you expect the reaction to be?

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
a reply to: redtic

Really? Out of the trillions upon trillions of stars and the trillions of planets in the universe, you believe that there are no life forms out there capable of interstellar travel? Seems like a mathematical certainty to me.

But I guess if I thought that humans were most advanced life form in the galaxy, I would look at the Kelly-Hopkinsville story a lot differently, too. I may not be able to come up with a plausible explanation, but I would have to rule out any extra-terrestrial involvement.

Right - high probability of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, low probability of them currently visiting earth based on all of the available evidence.

originally posted by: Scdfa

The OP charged alien abductees with lying, but the more you look at it, it seems the lying is coming from those who deny alien contact.

Sir you're constantly coming off as a brick wall, honestly. I don't think I need further to try and explain myself or my intentions in regards to this thread. You jump to conclusions and that does say alot about you.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
a reply to: redtic

Really? Out of the trillions upon trillions of stars and the trillions of planets in the universe, you believe that there are no life forms out there capable of interstellar travel? Seems like a mathematical certainty to me.

Probability is the worst thing to ever work with, it's rather strange how people would rather say:

1) We know of 1 planet in trillions upon trillions which is inhibited by life and can certainly prove this, the probabilty of life existing is technically undefined. Because there is no frequency of life to match it.
Rather than
2) But a study which proves 1 in 4 persons on this land will at some point in their life encounter a mental disorder makes me the worst thread creator in history who's a government agent working to 'disinfo'.
Mental health issue taken from: www.who.int...

Now please.. Again.. I'm not trying to offend and I'm rather neutral on the topic. I essentially believe life is out there, but i believe we are worlds apart. Nor am I saying anyone's mental health is bad just trying to say have an open mind.

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: SuspiciousTom

It's an insult to say if someone speaks their mind they are trying to insult you.

Hold on there. You didn't say it was your opinion, you said it was a fact. Remember?

So spare us the insulted act, it was you who insulted all of us.
What did you expect the reaction to be?

Sir, seriously.

originally posted by: SuspiciousTom
It's a clear fact that there are quiet a few people who lie in regards to aliens and will go extreme distances to try and prove the gibberish that they say.

"Quite a few" is not a statement which means "ALL" and it actually doesn't even mean "MAJORITY". If you are not of english descent then I can completely understand the constant miscommunication. Otherwise, I suggest you reread the thread completely.

originally posted by: SuspiciousTom

Probability is the worst thing to ever work with

Yeah, that's why so many casinos go broke.

You do realize that no one has ever seen an electron, but mathematical probability suggests they exist? Mathematical probability found Pluto before a telescope did.

I don't have a problem believing in something that has a good mathematical probability of existing.

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: SuspiciousTom

Probability is the worst thing to ever work with

Yeah, that's why so many casinos go broke.

You do realize that no one has ever seen an electron, but mathematical probability suggests they exist? Mathematical probability found Pluto before a telescope did.

I don't have a problem believing in something that has a good mathematical probability of existing.

Yes, casinos do have finite odds, you have a 1:xxxxx chance to win so of course you can.

The rarity of life is beyond comprehension of man, it's first we are 1 specie that has developed radio communication, and that is 1 specie of about 8 Million total currently on earth, where only about a 1/4 of that is estimated to be sea creatures yet we've explored just about 5% of our oceans. Species have come and gone, so as you can see it took some fair amount of trials to get to us.. Now we are 1 in the universe we haven't found any more to put it against the test and assume there's 1:1 Galaxy. We essentially don't know the probability of life. But yes as you can see odds are many times highly unlike but still come through.

Electrons were testable.

The major flaw with probability is that it's "Chance" essentially saying "If it does exist I can say I told you so" otherwise we just skip over it. It's not solid and that makes it horrible to work with, you most likely won't hear of the copious times it failed.

a reply to: redtic

Why do you assume a low probability, there? Humans went from steam power to atomic power in less than a century, imagine how far we could advance in another 100 years. Or a 1000? Imagine a civilization with 10,000 years of development on us. In the lifespan of a planet, that would be no time at all.

Here's how I see it. Let's conservatively estimate 1000 intelligent life forms in this galaxy. I don't think that's an unreasonable figure in a galaxy with over 100 billion planets (wikipedia). Now let's assume we can plot the technological achievement of these civilizations on a bell curve. Even if we assume that the Earth is on the high end of this bell curve, that would still put many, many planets higher than us on the curve. Considering the age of the Milky Way, these differences wouldn't be measured in time spans like wooden ships to space shuttles. These time differences would be more like the time between dinosaurs to pyramids, unless you assume that all life in the galaxy started at nearly the same time. To me, that would indicate that in this galaxy alone, there must be at least dozens of species out there capable of interstellar travel.

Of course, all that would be wrong if we were the only intelligent life in the galaxy. Or if we are the most advanced life forms in the galaxy, or the universe. But I have a problem thinking that human beings are that special, like God created all this just for us. I tend to think that Earth and humans are pretty average, in galactic terms.

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

In the casino example, yeah you can say you have a 1 in X chance of winning, but what probability says is that in the long run, you will lose. If you play a little roulette, you could win, you could loose. But if you keep playing (in an honest game) probability says you will lose. Like they say, Vegas wasn't built by winners.

Probability isn't about small numbers, like a single hand of blackjack or a handful of lottery tickets. It's about big numbers. Like the number of stars in the universe type numbers.

I don't believe that the probability of life is outside the understanding of man. We can make guesses. We can revise those guesses based on new information, and continue to revise them further, etc. For instance, we could look at what we know about our own Solar system and guess that a similar star has a 1 in 9 chance of having life (Yeah, I still count Pluto ). Now, that guess is probably wrong, but we can revise it as we get more data.

But the odds of life in the Milky Way would never be zero, because we're here. And like I said in the above post, I have a really hard time believing that humans or the Earth are that unique or that special. It would be like dealing over 100 billion hands of five card stud and only seeing one royal flush. It could happen, but the odds would be very much against it.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Yes, that is all understandable , but the reason the probability of life is incomprehensible to us is because we don't know what started it nor the frequency of it.

The likelihood however is more debatable, as it is likely that if there is an exact replica solar system then it might constitute life.

No one can say for certain that ET is visiting here. Its possible, but we need 100% evidence to back that up. We simply don't have that.

I believe some UFO cases defy explanation, and like others, get sick and tired of people coming out with stupid explanations, just because they are too arragont to hold their hands up and say "I don't know what it is"

The et explanation is just one of many. Could be inter dimensional, time travellers, an advanced race that has been on earth all the time, or for a very long time. ( the sea would be a great hiding place)

Or it very well could be that our secret projects are far more advanced than we imagined.

I am open to all of these, but no one should pick one as proof until we know. Its good to keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out

originally posted by: SuspiciousTom
a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Yes, that is all understandable

, but the reason the probability of life is incomprehensible to us is because we don't know what started it nor the frequency of it.

The likelihood however is more debatable, as it is likely that if there is an exact replica solar system then it might constitute life.

When you consider over 100 trillion stars in the universe, the likelihood of solar system very similar to ours is probably a near certainty. But being dis-similar to Earth doesn't rule out the possibility of life. So far, all we know is that life requires chemicals and energy. Energy from the Sun, or maybe thermal vents under the ocean. Chemicals like hydrogen, oxygen for water. Carbon, or maybe silicon, for organic molecules. Magnesium for chlorophyll molecules, etc. On Earth, we can find life everywhere, bottom of the ocean, middle of a desert, Antarctica, etc. Anywhere on Earth life can exist, it does. I feel that a planet doesn't necessarily have to be Earth-like to have life.

I have got to get off this thread

But before I do:

originally posted by: Jay-morris
No one can say for certain that ET is visiting here. Its possible, but we need 100% evidence to back that up. We simply don't have that.

Why do we need 100% certainty? Has anything in human history that has been worthwhile had 100% certainty? Did the Moon landing have 100% certainty? Did Columbus' voyage have 100% certainty? Did anything that happened today have a 100% chance that it would happen? There is an infinitesimal chance that the Sun could have gone nova today, you know.

Could we get by with 99.99? Maybe even go down to 95%?



Just messing with you man. I don't know of anything that has 100% evidence to back it up.

You have it all twisted. I will not agree with anything you stated in the OP.

Aliens have been coming here long before man. They continue to have a presence on Earth as well as other plants in this region of space.

Interdimentional travelers are also a mainstay of this planet.

With no ego involvement you could join the many who do not have the luxury to deny.

Fear seems your greatest motivator.

a reply to: antar

I will not agree with anything you stated in the OP.

You think that no one lies about aliens?

originally posted by: antar
You have it all twisted. I will not agree with anything you stated in the OP.

Aliens have been coming here long before man. They continue to have a presence on Earth as well as other plants in this region of space.

Interdimentional travelers are also a mainstay of this planet.

With no ego involvement you could join the many who do not have the luxury to deny.

Fear seems your greatest motivator.

It's not a matter of agreeing with. Nor is a matter of me fearing, I welcome the experience actually. Even at the cost of life, I'd take the chance to witness an event of extraterrestrials. It's a matter of another perspective.

And "Aliens have been coming here long before man" why wouldn't they colonize the planet? :/ On what grounds do you make such a bold statement?

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Why do we need 100% certainty? Has anything in human history that has been worthwhile had 100% certainty? Did the Moon landing have 100% certainty? Did Columbus' voyage have 100% certainty? Did anything that happened today have a 100% chance that it would happen? There is an infinitesimal chance that the Sun could have gone nova today, you know. 

Could we get by with 99.99? Maybe even go down to 95%? 

Just evidence that can't be disputed. If it can be disputed, then that's not good enough for me, but that's just me.