Report: $8.5 Trillion Missing From Pentagon Budget

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: jaws1975

I've been saying for years that procurement is a joke. Every company uses their own accounting software and instead of doing something that made sense, they never made them use the same software or that the software talked to each other.

When this started the military was a much scarier world. Heh. Corruption was rampant, and no one ever fixed it.

It is funny how the pentagon can come up with something as complex and sophisticated as ECHELON but lose 8 trillion dollars because people forgot to carry the one.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

It's funny that you still think 8 trillion dollars is actually missing. It just is....

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Well of course you would. You are an individual citizen. The DoD is a government agency, and historically, the "solution" is to add another computer system that is not compatible with the rest of the systems in use and then another layer of accountants.


Is it right? No. Should we be doing things that way? No. Can we shut down the entire DoD for several months so that every last item can be visually counted, and the numbers reconciled? No.

What does not help is people that think there is this mystical pile of money that disappeared......or as one of our local radio hosts calls them...uninformed voters....

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

They didn't lose it. There's a huge difference between "I lost $50" and "I didn't write down $50 when I wrote that check". The money is still spent where it needed to be spent, it just makes it harder to balance the check book.

8.5 trillion, wow that is a LOT of money. That works out at $26,562.5 per person assuming america's population is approx 320 million. You guys should be pissed!!

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Thecakeisalie

They didn't lose it. There's a huge difference between "I lost $50" and "I didn't write down $50 when I wrote that check". The money is still spent where it needed to be spent, it just makes it harder to balance the check book.

If there was a record of proof that the money was indeed spent where it was intended then what is the point of this story. Your saying that the money was spent like there is proof of it so. Take numbers from column a (your proof the money was spent) and place it in column b ( the missing ledger info)

What is the problem here?

well, they have a lot of stuff to build if they are gonna stage a fake "aliens" or blue beam tech event…

plus, they are not too efficient w their budgets

UFO TECHNOLOGY: Ben Rich, Skunk Works, and Mind Control
youtu.be...

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Because the budget goes through one software program, and the individual program budgets go through another program. So to reconcile them everything has to be input into the main program by hand. Many of these projects no longer have records because they're older, or were canceled, or were classified. Newer projects get input into the program budget system but not the main budget system.

So when the audit occurs there are holes for various reasons.

a reply to: Zaphod58

You've stated several times that this was due to bad accounting or from the use of outmoded software - but an 8.5 TRILLION error from faulty bookkeeping? That's absurd. This isn't sloppy bookkeeping, this is intentional malfeasance. This is 8.5 trillion dollars going somewhere they don't want us to know about.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

No, it isn't "money" going anywhere. An example...at one time, one of the accounting systems said the Navy had an extra aircraft carrier...which has a net worth recorded each year... Anyway, when someone pointed out it was bullsh*t, they subtracted the 760 million or so dollars from the accounting system. But, there was no PAPERWORK "proving" there was not two Abraham Lincolns to back up the adjustment....so it becomes 760 million they could not properly account for....same thing for M-16s, M-9s, M-203s et cetera. And each year that the "unproven adjustment" remains on the books, it accrues interest. So, that causes A LOT of the errors. And as Zaphod said, this system over here says one thing..and that system over there says something different, so which ever system matches the best inventory of an item...that system's information is used to "correct" the other system....which NOW shows an error for which there is no documentation.

The majority of that "8.5 trillion" is due to bad inventory numbers and adjustments made to make systems agree. Yes, a VERY small part of it is theft or other such issues. But, 97-98% of it...directly attributed to too many accountants and too many different versions of accounting software and systems.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

It's $8.5 Trillion over twenty years. Do you have any idea how much equipment was bought and how many programs ran over that time? Some of them were huge amounts of money over the course of a program, even if the bookkeeping was perfect.

I've been watching the procurement process for a lot of years and have never seen a single program even come close to getting the books right.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I would imagine JP Morgan is pretty comparable to the Pentagon in terms of accounting complexity. Have they ever tried bringing some of their people in (or another similarly sized corporation), not so much to fix it but to design a system that prevents future errors?

a reply to: Aazadan

Not that I've ever heard. They may end up doing something like that though. The GAO is keeping a closer eye on programs, and with sequestration forcing them to be more frugal with programs they have to be a lot more careful with the books.

I Remember the last time this happened, Rumsfeld told us...the day before 911.

a reply to: HUMBLEONE

Again, this was announced in November 2013, and nothing has happened.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Because the budget goes through one software program, and the individual program budgets go through another program. So to reconcile them everything has to be input into the main program by hand. Many of these projects no longer have records because they're older, or were canceled, or were classified. Newer projects get input into the program budget system but not the main budget system.

So when the audit occurs there are holes for various reasons.

8.4 trillion over 20 years. That is practically the entire DOD budget isn't it? 500 billion annually?

I'm sorry but if you do not believe that this has the potential to be a door left purposely wide open to avoid any complete audit, then you have much more faith in the honesty and transparency in the military-industrial complex than I, to say the least.

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Well of course you would. You are an individual citizen. The DoD is a government agency, and historically, the "solution" is to add another computer system that is not compatible with the rest of the systems in use and then another layer of accountants.


Is it right? No. Should we be doing things that way? No. Can we shut down the entire DoD for several months so that every last item can be visually counted, and the numbers reconciled? No.

What does not help is people that think there is this mystical pile of money that disappeared......or as one of our local radio hosts calls them...uninformed voters....

YES! I would expect that there would be great interest to audit EVERY-SINGLE-ITEM ever paid for by taxpayers. EVERY business does it. It is not some out-of-this world feat that would demand anything outside the VERY ordinary. Not to mention, this money was spent on equipment and programs that protects the lives of US soldiers, I think it is of VERY VERY big interest to make sure that those protecting the US are getting everything their citizens demanded they get.

To brush this off as "meh, accounting is hard. TLDR." is absolute BS.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

I've never said that. I've said that the total amount missing wasn't from anything nefarious. I've been saying for a long time that the procurement process is a pathetic joke that needs overhaul.

What I'm saying is that MOST of this amount is from stupidity and lack of accountability for decades.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: MALBOSIA

I've never said that. I've said that the total amount missing wasn't from anything nefarious. I've been saying for a long time that the procurement process is a pathetic joke that needs overhaul.

What I'm saying is that MOST of this amount is from stupidity and lack of accountability for decades.

I understand your position Zaphod, I'm not questioning the logic or how it came to be. It is, however, my belief that there is something nefarious about it.

If this is common knowledge that the accounting is fubar then why would there NOT be elements taking advantage of it? The military industial complex is full of Peter Buttercups? Don't answer that.

I don't want to argue about it. I understand the explaination given, I just do not believe that there was never any malicious intent behind it. I can't.

a reply to: HUMBLEONE

Well since in that particular instance, the 2.3 trillion was announced over 18 months PRIOR to 9/11/01....what is your point?