Satellite images show clearly that Russia faked its MH17 report

a reply to: Xcathdra

Where does a neutral official say this? Any OSCE statement on this?

originally posted by: greyhat
a reply to: Xcathdra

Where does a neutral official say this? Any OSCE statement on this?

The missile was designed and built in Russia. Russia knows that the Ukrainian Army possessed them, so if they wanted to frame the Kyiv government, they could pull an old missile out of mothballs, couldn't they? Or do you think Russians are stupid and wouldn't think of that?

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: greyhat
a reply to: Xcathdra

Where does a neutral official say this? Any OSCE statement on this?

The missile was designed and built in Russia. Russia knows that the Ukrainian Army possessed them, so if they wanted to frame the Kyiv government, they could pull an old missile out of mothballs, couldn't they? Or do you think Russians are stupid and wouldn't think of that?

Do you think Kiev is stupid and wouldn't use a BUK to try and frame Russia?

a reply to: Flatcoat

No more than Russia would lie and try to frame Ukraine.

a reply to: Xcathdra

So then, for the moment, you agree that it could have been either one of them?

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: Xcathdra

So then, for the moment, you agree that it could have been either one of them?

Sure its always a possibility. Personally speaking I don't think Ukraine did this and you and I have had enough debates as to why I think that. With that said the Dutch investigation has stated they will investigate the claims brought by Russia about Ukraine involvement, which will include the BUK as well as the aircraft shoot down scenario put forth.


Personally based on available info -
I think a BUK brought down the aircraft.
I think the rebels / pro Russians / russians are behind it.
I think the rebels misidentified the aircraft resulting in a mistake on their part.

Russia also put forth 4 key questions / claims they stated they want answered. Those answers were provided, undermining the Russian claims (the flight deviation etc).

Secondly Ukraine's version of events have not changed. Russia on the other hand has continually put forward differing, and in some instances, contradictory information on what occurred. IF it were an open and shut case, as Russia claims, then whats the purpose of multiple theories and faked photos?

Finally I know the Dutch are having / already had a meeting with Russia over the investigation and one of the topics was seeing how Russian cooperation would work if parties are identified and warrants issued. Their investigation should be wrapped up by October.

a reply to: Flatcoat

Do you think Kiev is stupid and wouldn't use a BUK to try and frame Russia?

One question...

Why would the Ukraine military have their BUK's manned and ready to fire when the separatists they are fighting have no planes to fly?

a reply to: Xcathdra

claims brought by Russia about Ukraine involvement, which will include the BUK as well as the aircraft shoot down scenario put forth.

I imagine more than one had a good laugh when they said it could be a Ukrainian SU 25 that did the deed.

I know I did.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Flatcoat

Do you think Kiev is stupid and wouldn't use a BUK to try and frame Russia?

One question...

Why would the Ukraine military have their BUK's manned and ready to fire when the separatists they are fighting have no planes to fly?

Good question. So why did they have BUKs in the area?

a reply to: Flatcoat

Ukraine didn't have any in rebel controlled territory. There would be no need since the rebels don't have air combat capability.

The pro Russian rebels had them so they could shoot down Ukrainian military aircraft. Like they did several times prior to MH17 to the shoot down of Ukrainian military aircraft. As with MH17 the rebels also took to social media to claim the shoot down.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I was referring to the fact that the Ukranians had BUK systems in the area where MH17 was shot down, not that they were in rebel territory. So if they didn't need them, why were they there?

a reply to: Flatcoat

I was referring to the fact that the Ukranians had BUK systems in the area where MH17 was shot down, not that they were in rebel territory.

The plane was brought down in separatist territory...so now how does Ukraine get a BUK into separatists territory, shoot down a commercial airliner then get it out of the same separatists held land without being seen by anyone...not even the separatists?

a reply to: Flatcoat

Good question. So why did they have BUKs in the area?

It's Ukraine they can have them where they want...but you seem to be forgetting the plane was brought down by something that hit near the cockpit which means the BUK had to come from separatists held land as it was well into it when it was shot down, so again how would Ukraine achieve this feat without being seen?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Flatcoat

Do you think Kiev is stupid and wouldn't use a BUK to try and frame Russia?

One question...

Why would the Ukraine military have their BUK's manned and ready to fire when the separatists they are fighting have no planes to fly?

Paranoia regarding a "Russian Invasion"(tm)? The Russians have planes...

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
...the plane was brought down by something that hit near the cockpit which means the BUK had to come from separatists held land ...

A surface to air rocket is a lot faster than a civil airliner, could also have been a shoot from behind.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Yeah because it was reproduced and proved to be unreliable in recognizing errors.

a reply to: greyhat

According to Putin the Russians aren't involved. Why would a Russian aircraft violate Ukraine's airspace?

Secondly why would they deploy it in rebel controlled territory?

a reply to: greyhat

If it was shot from behind, the damage would be in the aft fuselage, not around the cockpit.

a reply to: Flatcoat

I will agree to that. If you will agree that the rebels posted a tweet claiming to have downed a Ukrainian transport aircraft at the same time .

a reply to: Zaphod58

Did you analyze their firmware? Not every rocket follows heat sources, target aquisition methods differ.