Woman who failed physical exam to become firefighter

a reply to: Domo1

It happens more than we would like to believe. From affirmative-action to "gender equality rights". Both can be extremely helpful, but they can be equally devastating. We should not be forced to hire anyone on race, religion, or sex. When we look at those above a persons actual capability, we're building a house on a cracked foundation. Sure, the house might look fine in the end, but the minute there's a minor earth quake it'll come rumbling down.

Organizations are built to be strong by selecting those right for the position. I'd never use my gender or my race to land a job I'm not qualified for. Not only is it morally wrong, it can be potentially life threatening as in this case.

It seems that the further we go into the 2000's, the more insane we become. Political correctness and misguided "social justice" is ruining us.

Come on, you'd think if anyone knew how to put a fire out, it's a woman. I mean, all those kitchens..........

Ahha I kid I kid.

I don't think anyone should have the standard lowered for them to compete unfairly in something, be they man, woman, hermaphrodite or whatever. If you can't cut it, you don't get the knife.

Had this argument here so many years ago, with inequality being forced onto the norm, due to societal standards requiring an equal representation of whoever...

44 women, maybe it implies women are not eager to get the position? Maybe it is a sign of a different problem, which is not remedied by giving positions to people inadequately capable of performance, but of changing a belief that says they are not, by default?

Given the chance, if freddy or frederika can do it, they should eb judged on that. not what they have dangling somewhere, or the pigment of their skin.

stupid world we live in...

a reply to: Domo1

Sorry mate but who are you to judge this woman simply going on what a news report says.

I don't think people in the media are qualified to say who is fit and who is not, because they have no idea of the inner workings of firefighter assessment. They simply saw one score out of her fitness assessment and made an unqualified decision that she was not suitable and so have you..!!

How much were her other times out by, a few seconds or a few minutes..!?!

Thirty seconds either way isn't a huge deal. If she is fit enough to finish in a reasonable time and do it repeatedly, then she is fit enough to carry out her duties. The specific time limits are just guidelines and if you get it close enough and score high in other areas, then it's not a problem with the department, so it shouldn't be for you..!!

I have failed one or two of my yearly fitness assessments in the past (as specially when doing the arduous test for remote area firefighting), and yet come close enough to get through. If they knocked back many of the older fieries because of a few seconds each year, leaving them with the fittest/youngest (who have probably never set foot on the fireground before), then there's a disaster in the making.

There's any number of reasons to fail the fitness testing too.. Strained hamstrings, the flu slowing you down (as has been in my case twice), or any number of other minor ailments that won't be present in the future.

Also, a firefighter is always training, always working and those that are not up to 100%, soon will be.

Sorry, but the fire authorities let this woman through and they are the ones who have the experience and knowledge to determine weather a person is eligible or not.. Not you and not the media..!!

I might also add that many members of our volunteer brigades are not the fittest people in the world (I would assume that US volunteers are no different), yet they still do an awesome job when called upon. Some of the best fireies I know look like your "average American cop" and still manage to do the impossible..!!

a reply to: Domo1

Just pass the test slick. It's really not that hard. This reminds me of something that pissed me off when I was in the Army. Seeing people come in with 20 out of 100 percentile on their ASVAB, and just having waivers or whatever. One guy probablyhad an IQ of 70. I mean the guy had trouble tying his shoes. One can hope most of these people failed training, as they should, though I saw standards slipping, and tests fudged...

If you are going to have a test, and that test is supposed to mean you can do your job. Well, it's a test.. That's what it does.

I know plenty of girls who could be firefighters. I know two girls off the top of my head who can lift more weight on their back than me..

If they got it they got it. And I have no patience left at all for any more PC bull#. Weak girl can't pass a test, then weak girl goes home and no one dies.

originally posted by: KnightLight
a reply to: Domo1

Just pass the test slick. It's really not that hard. This reminds me of something that pissed me off when I was in the Army. Seeing people come in with 20 out of 100 percentile on their ASVAB, and just having waivers or whatever. One guy probablyhad an IQ of 70. I mean the guy had trouble tying his shoes. One can hope most of these people failed training, as they should, though I saw standards slipping, and tests fudged...

If you are going to have a test, and that test is supposed to mean you can do your job. Well, it's a test.. That's what it does.

I know plenty of girls who could be firefighters. I know two girls off the top of my head who can lift more weight on their back than me..

If they got it they got it. And I have no patience left at all for any more PC bull#. Weak girl can't pass a test, then weak girl goes home and no one dies.

I was too short for the waiver limit for the Army.

I could not get into the National Guard because of my height and they told me the only way I might get in would be if I petitioned the President. They made sure that I could not join because the height requirements dictated it, and yet my ASVAB scores were very high.

I had to respect the height requirement.

At the time I took the ASVAB in high school, my IQ was 125, that wasn't enough to get me into the service. I didn't get to go in, and I hear all the time "those who never served". I tried, but something that was not my fault kept me out. I understand why though, the height requirements are there for a purpose.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I had to respect the height requirement.

Even Disneyland has height requirements!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

I had to respect the height requirement.

Even Disneyland has height requirements!

LOL...

See, the world is against us.

I have been called Smurfette, Munckin and Ooompa Loompa. I am not a blue German, I do not represent the Lollipop Guild, nor am I from some strange, unidentified island who has nothing better to do all day than sing and dance.

BTW, I was only 1/2 inch under the waiver limit.

a reply to: BobaFettish
So you start by saying who are you to judge, yet I can tell you are not a firefighter or EMS person. 30 seconds doesn't matter? Bull...Anyone in the emergency field will tell you 30 seconds is alot of time that can determine the outcome of an event.

Then you say she failed one part. This may be the case, but she still failed. These are minimum requirements for anyone to ensure they can safely and effectively perform their everyday duties on the job. If she cannot complete these requirements which are minimum requirements, then she needs to find another career.

We have many volunteer fire brigades here also. As you said, many are out of shape etc. Their is also a noticeable difference between the effectiveness of our volunteer brigades and our paid departments. Is it better than nothing? Absolutely.

I have asthma and Lupus. Lupus causes alot of pain and fatigue 24/7. However I built my lungs up by running and keeping running daily. If you cant hack it, find another career.

originally posted by: LoverBoy
a reply to: BobaFettish
So you start by saying who are you to judge, yet I can tell you are not a firefighter or EMS person. 30 seconds doesn't matter? Bull...Anyone in the emergency field will tell you 30 seconds is alot of time that can determine the outcome of an event.

Then you say she failed one part. This may be the case, but she still failed. These are minimum requirements for anyone to ensure they can safely and effectively perform their everyday duties on the job. If she cannot complete these requirements which are minimum requirements, then she needs to find another career.

We have many volunteer fire brigades here also. As you said, many are out of shape etc. Their is also a noticeable difference between the effectiveness of our volunteer brigades and our paid departments. Is it better than nothing? Absolutely.

I have asthma and Lupus. Lupus causes alot of pain and fatigue 24/7. However I built my lungs up by running and keeping running daily. If you cant hack it, find another career.

30 seconds makes a huge difference.

Do people realize that when their home catches on fire, they have seven minutes to get out? That is why most people who die in house fires are killed, because they die of smoke inhalation before the fire ever gets them.

30 seconds can mean the difference in life or death.

I escaped a house fire and believe me, it took me less than that to get out because in 30 seconds I could have gotten enough smoke inhalation to render me unable to move.

I would think that people would want fire fighters to be physically capable of getting people out of burning buildings, because it IS a matter of life or death.

a reply to: Klassified

I think you answered your own question. If that male firefighter collapsed and had to be dragged out (knowing he passed the physical test in the first place to even become a firefighter) then obviously the high standards of physical ability are needed. If he passed and still collapsed then someone who didn't pass the test in the first place would be way more likely to collapse in the same circumstances.

I'm all for equality. As long as it's equal across the board no matter race, gender or age

originally posted by: Baltazar84
a reply to: Klassified

I think you answered your own question. If that male firefighter collapsed and had to be dragged out (knowing he passed the physical test in the first place to even become a firefighter) then obviously the high standards of physical ability are needed. If he passed and still collapsed then someone who didn't pass the test in the first place would be way more likely to collapse in the same circumstances.

I'm all for equality. As long as it's equal across the board no matter race, gender or age

And that is exactly the reason why fire brigades have trained for a thousand years. No wait, maybe more than two thousand years.

We know that in ancient Rome they had trained fire brigades. Perhaps fire fighting is the world's oldest rescue group?

They have had plenty of time to learn what works the best and then continually train for it.

originally posted by: WarminIndy


They have had plenty of time to learn what works the best and then continually train for it.

Exactly.

And tests like this are for the MINIMUM.... The test is designed by wisdom and knowledge of fire fighting. And it has set to test the lowest possible passable outcomes..

It's like going into the Army. I feel like the minimum first PT (physical training) test was 17 Pushups?? It's something around this.. That's the minimum STARTING level. And it's not a high standard. Once I started going through training I understood why pushups and sit ups and running as the standards.. You have to be able to get up off the ground. You have to be able to push up off the ground with your IBA on. You have to get up and RUN with 100 pounds on your back.

The people who failed the test. They are not even close to being a soldier. The people who barely got by the tests? I imagine 90% of them are now civilians.




Minimum test...... It's like you are super weak but over time we can get you up to speed, but at least you "passed," for now.


Or to put it another way.
WHAT OTHER POINT can there EVER be for a TEST..... Than to test something.

pretty simple.
The standards are low enough that that spot has 10,000 fire fighters??? They have enough. They don't need any weaker fire fighters to take any spots away from qualified women and men..

It's those people who can use mental toughness under stress (those people passing tests) that you NEED. You can't pass a test you KNOW about?? What about the Fire that spreads into some unpredictable pattern??? You gonna cry cause the smoke is too black? Or will you rise way above the minimum standards and save a life?

I think I'll test you to be sure. Men and women are NOT the same... BUT the test IS the same, and it's testing you to be a fire fighter. The test cares not if you have balls or boobs.

a reply to: BobaFettish

Sorry, but the fire authorities let this woman through and they are the ones who have the experience and knowledge to determine weather a person is eligible or not.. Not you and not the media..!!

I agree with you on this point. Also, we all may be under the misunderstanding that firefighters work alone, but it appears they work in teams, therefore, this female firefighter would become a valuable member (didn't she score exceptionally high on the intellectual part of the testing) of the team in whatever capacity the hiring manager deemed appropriate. Who knows he may have hired her for her brains as well as brawn - she may be on the fast track to Chief.

www.firefightingincanada.com...

a reply to: Domo1

If I'm not mistaken the job of a firefighter is to fight fires, and fires come in many forms and I imagine that urban firefighters have stricter entry requirements for certain reasons.

Rural fire brigades have quite a few women in their ranks; it's about fighting the fire itself and not about dragging people out of burning buildings. When it comes to large scrub fires it's more about knowledge and endurance rather than brute strength.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie
Structure fires, medical calls, swift water rescue, wilderness rescue, high angle rescue....just to name a few. Dragging a dummy weighing 200-400 lbs is typically part of your agility test, since you brought up dragging people out of burning buildings. This is completely different then climbing a 12 story tower with turnout gear and and airpack on while dragging hose. Minimum specs are set to rule out people who wouldnt be able to do day to day operations.

originally posted by: LoverBoy
a reply to: Thecakeisalie
Structure fires, medical calls, swift water rescue, wilderness rescue, high angle rescue....just to name a few. Dragging a dummy weighing 200-400 lbs is typically part of your agility test, since you brought up dragging people out of burning buildings. This is completely different then climbing a 12 story tower with turnout gear and and airpack on while dragging hose. Minimum specs are set to rule out people who wouldnt be able to do day to day operations.

If I were to have to go through another house fire (God forbid) and couldn't get out, I sure would want to know if the fire fighter was capable of dragging me out, and I'm a little person.

We have a population of morbidly obese people. Imagine a fire fighter had 10 seconds to get that kind of person out, they better be in shape.

All potential firefighters need to pass the same tests. Now, those tests (particularly any strength requirements) should be based on real world challenges not limited feats of strength.

Example:
Military pressing 100 pounds 10 times -vs- getting a 200 pound dummy out of a room and down a ladder in under 5 minutes

...something like that.

Disclaimer: I have zero idea what firefighters are actually required to do, just inserting my logic!

This is nothing new...

usnews.nbcnews.com...

Or this one...

Racist tests..

www1.nyc.gov...

It is a test. If you fail...you DO NOT get the job.

Also, how does someone get a 20 on the ASVAB...

originally posted by: matafuchs


Also, how does someone get a 20 on the ASVAB...

I try not to exaggerate as it's sometimes an issue of mine.. I'll be humble when the time comes..

I went to MEPS and then to the hotel before you "ship out" to your firt order, your first duty... Basic Training. One of thegirls there.

She had a 17.... Percentile..

It's the type of person you are glad they are smart enough to be a crack whore or something like this. GLAD.. And she was in the Army.. She didn't pass the test, and obviouly can't even take care of herself, let alone anyone else, let alone anyone else under stress..... Not sure what her MOS was that I hope she never made it to.

Writing this post I wish I was lying.
It's kind of dark.
She was even black out drunk when we had a test for drugs in about 4 hours....
I HOPE and PRAY that she failed some test... I can only HOPE she FAILED. Failed hard too. I Hope.

From this extreme example I take from it.......
Tests are important. I am going to test my son or daughter on their level of consciousness before I let them drive a car. There are reasons for tests.. Driving tests.. It's annoying, but it's probably keeping your sister alive or your mother or your dad..

Dumb people can't figure out the windage and the position of the enemy to save your life....
Weak people can't save you in a fire.


You want to pass a test?
You decide this is your job?

Just Do It.

That's it.

a reply to: LoverBoy

I'm sure that is the case for urban firefighters but the qualifications and procedures for rural firefighters are quite different.

For instance there is no escape in a scrubfire- if you are given an evacuation order, you evacuate. If you Ignore that order, take cover or die-simple as that. When an inferno can leap highways and travel at 60 MPH, rescuing someone is certain death.