Woman who failed physical exam to become firefighter

a reply to: InTheLight

Gotta run. Going to go do my 55 minute timed workout in 32 minutes, because I am a white male and the laws of time don't apply to me.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

Gotta run. Going to go do my 55 minute timed workout in 32 minutes, because I am a white male and the laws of time don't apply to me.

Have fun and don't hang on to any rails while climbing or you will be disqualified.

ottawacitizen.com...

www.cbc.ca...

"And there's not a fire department in the world that can respond to your home and rescue you in that time," Williams said.

Flash fire time is now 2 minutes, so the CPAT timing standards are redundant.

Wow a whole debate about a women being a firefighter.... I think most city firefighters nowadays are a little gunho.... they probably don't see women as becoming part of their fantasy battle battalion? If you look out into the rural area's everyone is a firefighter, usually it's all voluntary men, women and children!

originally posted by: imitator
Wow a whole debate about a women being a firefighter.... I think most city firefighters nowadays are a little gunho.... they probably don't see women as becoming part of their fantasy battle battalion? If you look out into the rural area's everyone is a firefighter, usually it's all voluntary men, women and children!

Fantasy battle battalion sums it up very well. But modern fires require modern firefighting tactics.

originally posted by: InTheLight
Fantasy battle battalion sums it up very well. But modern fires require modern firefighting tactics.

Haha I agree.... yes amazing how state-of-the-art fires need more than just water nowadays.

originally posted by: imitator

originally posted by: InTheLight
Fantasy battle battalion sums it up very well. But modern fires require modern firefighting tactics.

Haha I agree.... yes amazing how state-of-the-art fires need more than just water nowadays.

And from what the firefighting engineers are saying, it looks like old school firefighting tactics now cause more injury and deaths for both home occupants and firefighters.

a reply to: InTheLight

Weird thing happened......my 55 minute workout took 55 minutes. Guess that time based standards can't be leaned to the white man's advantage.

I am willing to bet that should a female, black guy or lesbian do the same workout, it would take them 55 minutes as well.

Regardless of what you state, the standards are still there. The female didn't pass one. She failed.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

Weird thing happened......my 55 minute workout took 55 minutes. Guess that time based standards can't be leaned to the white man's advantage.

I am willing to bet that should a female, black guy or lesbian do the same workout, it would take them 55 minutes as well.

Regardless of what you state, the standards are still there. The female didn't pass one. She failed.

The discriminatory standards are certainly still there, but they are being ignored by those who know best.

a reply to: macman

You're wrong Mac - a female would have done the workout with her "mind" so the time limit is redundant.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

Weird thing happened......my 55 minute workout took 55 minutes. Guess that time based standards can't be leaned to the white man's advantage.

I am willing to bet that should a female, black guy or lesbian do the same workout, it would take them 55 minutes as well.

Regardless of what you state, the standards are still there. The female didn't pass one. She failed.

The discriminatory standards are certainly still there, but they are being ignored by those who know best.

Uh huh. Standard:

a level of quality, achievement, etc., that is considered acceptable or desirable

www.merriam-webster.com...

They aren't "discriminatory" they just are. If one can not reach that "level of quality" it's because of what they can do, not what they are.

a reply to: InTheLight

Again, please explain how a timed requirement is discriminatory.

Unless women by default can't meet time requirements in general, and are therefore unable to complete any task within a defined time allotment.

You either pass or fail some requirements.
carrying a 250+lb human to safety with the standard load of fire fighting equipment requires the strength to do it no matter how you slice it. Some women can do it. Some men can't. What is lame is when the men or women that weren't up to the task make rationalizations about why they are still qualified and we make exceptions. Standards are serious business and are born out of experience and data. There is a saying in some branches of the military "casualness creates casualties".

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

Again, please explain how a timed requirement is discriminatory.

Unless women by default can't meet time requirements in general, and are therefore unable to complete any task within a defined time allotment.

Here's a great story from a female that knows where the discrimination (lack of training for women), varying and changing standards, and ignorance lay:

Keeping more statistics on the CPAT would be extremely helpful. Test administrators should be documenting average times for each station, differences in men’s and women’s performance, and maybe even statistics of candidates’ age, height, and weight vs. their times. Without these statistics, the Consortium and other test-givers only keep themselves ignorant as to how and why the test works, or even whether it provides an accurate measurement of what they want to measure.

i-women.org...

originally posted by: InTheLight
Here's a great story from a female that knows where the discrimination (lack of training for women), varying and changing standards, and ignorance lay:

Since you train for a CPAT on your own time, using your own resources...that woman's tale is a whole lot of "lacks dedication and commitment" thrown on the social warrior bus.

Maybe she should have applied for the whaaaambulance positions.

You still haven't even figured out that the CPAT and FST are fundamentally different, have you?

a reply to: InTheLight

So women can't meet the times, and therefore the times should be changed.

Outcome based jobs now.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

So women can't meet the times, and therefore the times should be changed.

I'd be annoyed to find that a person serving my food wasn't qualified. An essential public service? Unthinkable.

a reply to: intrepid

I guess that in order to allow "progressive to march" we need to all embrace the lowering of standards.

Diversity at all costs is the name of the game.

Fret not macman and intrepid.

2/3's of the females, from that particular class, are highly competent firefighters.

You have a 66% chance of getting a one of them.

a reply to: peck420

I am for.....now let me start again and place this in bold.....I am for hiring of the most qualified person to do the job. I don't care what gender they are, what color their skin is, what sexual preference they have or what religion they hold to.

If a person can do the job better then the others, hire them.

What happened, and what InTheLight wants, is for the standards to be lowered, so more women, regardless if they are qualified and pass the standards, so they can be hired.

She is the exact reason why the dumpy 230lb black female officer is hired and is obvious can't perform the job within the LE community.
But, all should feel better because there is diversity now.

originally posted by: macman
But, all should feel better because there is diversity now.

Yes there should be diversity.... being most qualified shouldn't be based on how much weight you can pull around. I would suspect there are things that women can do that men cant physically do, for example crawling into small holes to rescue a child or something, or better instinct, they are far more flexible than most men and have amazing balance.... they definitely beat men in multitasking!