Abductee Training & Reincarnation

Firstly, lets assume ALL abduction experiences are real. No evidence. 100% witness testimony. All real.

This has been bugging me for a while. A lot of abductees say they are shown movies aboard the abduction ships. These are typically movies about natural disasters, floods, famine, nuclear war, humans in jeopardy. Often the films are shown alongside some kind of loyalty test where humans are given the choice to save either ; a) another human or b) a hybrid or alien. They are then sent on their merry way (often with t-shirts on inside out) and told that they will remember what to do when the time comes. Then missing time and then some kind of regression to get this info out etc. etc.

The question I have is that a lot of these abductees have passed on.

So I was wondering - what is the point of suddenly knowing "know what to do" if you are dead. Is it assumed that the knowledge will pass on genetically or spiritually (when the sould moves to a newborn baby) and then this knowledge will kick in during the next life?

Well here's another thought. This one's really out on a limb. What if the knowledge does kick in and all these trainees are here to help and allay our fears about alien intervention during their next incarnation. That would mean when the abductee dies and then is reborn. At about the age of 20-30 they would be strong enough physically to help during a natural disaster. That would mean that the disasters would be coming soonish - in the next life of the abductee.

Just shooting the breeze on this one. But if abductions are true it could mean 2 things 1) "evidence" of reincarnation and 2) natural disaster coming in next 20-30yrs or so - when the abductee is strong enough in the new "sleeved" self to help others.

I'm I way off here?

a reply to: objectman

I am always embarrassed to discuss those experiences, but actually that description sums it up pretty good.
I had that type of experience, and there was some sort of question about a choice I was free to make, though I am fuzzy now on what exactly it entailed. Something about splitting of realities; a sense of either "stay" or "go"; be part of aiding humans in one reality, or move on to another adventure; as the discussion slips into the fog of my memory, I had the impression it didn't matter, I would know when it came time.

I've read a few different peoples interpretations and channelings which could apply to this, but in general don't feel like embracing any of them. It could be some sort of internal spiritual event, having nothing to do with anything outside myself.
That would explain why many people had the same sort of experience. Perhaps in past times, the same spiritual event was explained with concepts popular at those times- end of days, heaven descending to earth scenarios..return of popular Gods and such. Those patterns exist throughout human history in belief, under different guises.

But no, I am not dead, I don't think!

ETA- oh you added more as I was posting! Now I see where you are going with this. Hm. Something about the hypothesis doesn't "click". Maybe it's the fact that I am not dead, and after some difficult contemplation back then, my choice was on the end of helping humanity (the "stay" choice).
At the time, (this was about 15-16 years ago) I had some notion that it entailed major world events of some sort. I don't feel so dedicated to that interpretation now. Heck, perhaps it was just a personal event inside pushing me to get more engaged with life and others around me, now! -The suggestion of destructive world events simply a motivator?

Though it is funny, the last two weeks, I have had dreams every night, about being either pregnant or with a small baby. Yesterday, the baby was at an age where he started to walk and talk, and told me he was a reincarnation of Giordano Bruno. Last night I was pregnant and there was some people who believed it was some sort of meaningful reincarnation, wanting to practice some sort of ritual over me, and I had to escape them. I am beyond child bearing age though (late forties), and do not think this has anything to do with getting pregnant. But the reincarnation concept is almost always mixed up in these dreams.

a reply to: objectman

I don't think you're too far off the mark to be honest.

Now granted, I don't have any onboard memories or anything, I just know I've had an interesting life experience since a singular evening way back in 1994. Since then I feel I have been guided in many schools of thought and studies. When the proverbial stuff hit the fan back in 2001, things went super chaotic in my life very fast. It's only now starting to make sense again the past year.

I feel I am here to allay fears and provide counsel to others for the current times. Gentle and peaceful thoughts and strong minds able to not be swayed by the hate and war and violence that surround us day to day. To stand strong and united, doing what we can, when we can and help honest and good people stay safe and help those one the wrong path find the light again.

I wish I had all the answers, but I'm only one person in a much larger collective.
We do what we can, when we can, for hearts and minds that are open to our message.

Then again, I could really just be mentally divergent and overtly optimistic, but Hope and Faith is all I have left.

But you guys are still here. A lot of abductees aren't. I really meant abductees who have passed on.

So if they were trained either

a) the greys themselves don't know when the destruction will come so they train everyone up anyway or

b) the knowledge and training will kick in during the human's next life or

c) the greys are just appealing to our "helpful nature" and vanity and really they just want sperm and eggs and are trying to obfuscate this simple fact with complex trickery and distraction?

a reply to: objectman

Where do you get the idea that so many abductees are dead now?

I ended up in contact with quite a few, and they are still alive. Though granted, the ones I am in contact with were people who did not choose to "go public" in any way- they are normal people, usually embarrassed and confused about the events they experienced, that choose to keep it a secret. Perhaps ones that become visible in public were knocked off? (hey this is a conspiracy site after all...)

Who is dead (besides Dr. Mack, who was not an abductee himself)?

a reply to: Bluesma

Andreasson, Betty & Barney Hill, Antônio Vilas-Boas are famous ones. Ernie Sears (Abductee & Healer). Charles Hickson who wrote "UFO Contact at Pascagoula" These people mostly died in their 80s. I haven't read Hickson's book so don't know if he was shown the destruction videos.

I was assuming many more had died based on David Jacobs estimation that a possible percentage of Earthlings have been abducted. I doubt all the abductees since 1947 are still around.

originally posted by: objectman
But you guys are still here. A lot of abductees aren't. I really meant abductees who have passed on.

So if they were trained either

a) the greys themselves don't know when the destruction will come so they train everyone up anyway or

b) the knowledge and training will kick in during the human's next life or

c) the greys are just appealing to our "helpful nature" and vanity and really they just want sperm and eggs and are trying to obfuscate this simple fact with complex trickery and distraction?

I think it's option a. I'll spare you the details since I myself only barely remember a small amount but I'm a multiple abductee, I can remember it happening since age 20 (33 now) but apparently as a kid I spoke to my parents about it and it happened even when I was 7. The impression I've got is that they can't control what we're going to do but that we have the capabilities now to utterly destroy ourselves. I don't remember ever being trained for anything specifically other than seeing some very high level math (one of my few memories of the event is looking at the problem, but I don't have the solution) but I think that if the theory is true, they just want to make sure survivors will have the necessary skillsets. Which honestly, I question what teaching me math would have to do with fixing society. I would think medical or construction skills would be far more necessary.

a reply to: objectman

You'd probably like the writings of the late Dolores Cannon. She was an abductee who went on to interview and 'regress' others before publishing the results in books. She took a similar view to yours by seeing the beings as Custodians here to help. She also held the concept that reincarnation was an element of the abduction phenomena which meant they were us and vice versa; we could be reborn on another planet in an alien (to us) body.

Leo Sprinkle went the same way in seeing the abduction phenomena as something benign and spiritual. Same sort of message that the late John E Mack was trying to put out.

Karla Turner's also dead and took quite a different view to Cannon. Hers was closer to David Jacobs' nightmare scenario with evil entities torturing humans on vast scales.

Even though you want to think this through as if 'ALL abduction experiences are real,' we're still kinda stuck. This is because there's never been a consistent message from researchers or abductees. Sure, there are a few themes, but are they enough to make an argument?

I mean, can the 'aliens' be so hideously evil and so beatifically spiritual at the same time? Can the 'end of the world' always be 'just around the corner?' And if it is, how can the end of the world have so many different endings? Are we to be hit by asteroids, have axial tilts, floods, tectonic plate collapses? So may endings when only one should be enough. Not to forget how often they've been wrong in the 20th and 21st centuries. I can think of two or three predictions of catastrophe from the 1950s and the 1990s that didn't happen in any shape or form.

In terms of training and reincarnation, that would imply future lives and past lives wouldn't it? If such a thing exists, we all will have been 'trained' through past lives e.g. millions of males in the early part of the 20th Century will have fought in wars. Across centuries, we might all experience a life (or lives) of a soldier, nurse, doctor, emergency responder etc.

If we take the abductee reports as truthful, it seems to me that we'd be looking at the 'abductors' as liars. It's like 'we love you, we love you, but you're all gonna die!' How would a child react to being kidnapped, scared half to death, returned and the 'end of the world' was another scare tactic? Or the other one, 'We love you, but we're gonna mix you out of existence and take over your planet.' Seems like a low bar to set for what type of behaviour is acceptable!

originally posted by: objectman
a reply to: Bluesma

Andreasson, Betty & Barney Hill, Antônio Vilas-Boas are famous ones. Ernie Sears (Abductee & Healer). Charles Hickson who wrote "UFO Contact at Pascagoula" These people mostly died in their 80s. I haven't read Hickson's book so don't know if he was shown the destruction videos.

I was assuming many more had died based on David Jacobs estimation that a possible percentage of Earthlings have been abducted. I doubt all the abductees since 1947 are still around.

In the Pascagoula event and the Hills, I remember them talking about what they saw and heard, and the creatures they encountered were both completely different from each other, but some of the now common themes observed are very similar. One of them which is common to all abductions, is how organized the process of abductions are, and how the ships are designed on the inside as if manufactured just for the purpose of the abduction process and the procedures the abductees are put through.

To me this means there is a universal problem that is common to many of the "visitors" coming here which necessitates, their need to use humans for something that they lack, and they specifically must have humans to provide whatever it is that they need for their immensely important, (to them) human abduction program).

Another common thing is deception being used humans as if to take advantage of how we commonly like to help others, and these deceptions become known later by examining the behavior of the abductors, and how they do not offer anything in return for what they take which is contrary to how we humans ethically expect to be offered something for suffering through something that requires people to undergo traumatic procedures for the sake of someone who's motives remain unknown in full detail. This is also contrary to their knowledge of how they are using one of our traits for their own purposes by taking advantage of those traits, and then disregarding other traits which would require them to offer something to fill that gap.

That exposes a great selfishness on their part, and shows that their motives are not noble towards the human race in any way.

As to the reports where abductees are put into certain scenarios where they must choose to fight or allow someone to be hurt is an area I haven't researched much, but it could be a deception that helps the visitors understand our ways better, but it also is a selfishly motivated program on their part and also shares some of the common things learned about some of these visitors.

From what I have learned, there is quite a few different visitors coming, and they all do share some common themes about themselves, none of which casts them in very good light in my opinion. And some visitors are downright hostile and extremely self serving entities.

Up to this point in time, the things learned about who is coming here and why vary a lot, but all show certain patterns of behavior and things observed about their crafts that prove beyond any doubt to me, that the phenomenon is real, and not fictional or mental delusions on a singularly or mass scale of mental issue among people.

I know several people who are abducted several times a year, and it is still happening to them.

In regards to the cases where the victims have passed on, the visitors may be targeting their family members who are still alive. There is a pattern of these visitors going after entire families, and this is a very well known theme about some of these visitors.

You live in Colorado?

If I were being abducted regularly and knew it was likely to happen again I would be all over it with whatever instruments, witnesses, and other ways to make it provable to someone who didn't have the experience. That's just me.

I'd feel compelled to have some sort of evidence, no matter how hard it was to get. If I set up cameras and they all wonk out during one my abductions I'd have several someones try to sit watch over me - if that didn't work I'd do my level-best to come up with something definitive. I would never stop trying. If the experience didn't happen after setting up my observation experiment, then I would come to two possible conclusions: 1) It's something internal not external, and/or 2) The aliens are chicken****.

I am not casting doubt on anyone's experiences by the way, just sharing how I would feel if something like that was happeniong to me on a semi-regular basis.

originally posted by: WHWIV
If I were being abducted regularly and knew it was likely to happen again I would be all over it with whatever instruments, witnesses, and other ways to make it provable to someone who didn't have the experience. That's just me.

I'd feel compelled to have some sort of evidence, no matter how hard it was to get. If I set up cameras and they all wonk out during one my abductions I'd have several someones try to sit watch over me - if that didn't work I'd do my level-best to come up with something definitive. I would never stop trying. If the experience didn't happen after setting up my observation experiment, then I would come to two possible conclusions: 1) It's something internal not external, and/or 2) The aliens are chicken****.

I am not casting doubt on anyone's experiences by the way, just sharing how I would feel if something like that was happeniong to me on a semi-regular basis.

Currently stealth aircraft can fly into radar laden
extremely well guarded airspace completely unnoticed.
Interstellar travelers decide whether you see their craft,
see them, or remember anything about the experience.
I bet a motion detector camera and other recording equipment
have absolutely zero chance of capturing anything unless they want you to.
They're real smart like that

a reply to: UnderKingsPeak

No doubt, or at least their intelligence would be different than ours.

I wasn't trying to bash anyone, truly. I just know if it were me I would never ever ever stop questing for some hard evidence that I could put in front of someone totally unconnected to the experience and have them at least go "Hmm, something to this after all."

It seems like "they" occasionally do make mistakes if reports of crashes and inside out underwear are to be believed.

a reply to: objectman
Personally I don't trust anything these beings say. If they were benevolent they would not hide in the shadows and treat people as they do. I think it is naïve to think they would cough up their agenda just like that. They HAVE and agenda and they are not going to say what it is. Instead they will provide people with stories that may have some truth or half truths in them but we don't know their plan, except that it seems to involve getting control over an limited number of abductees/'hybrids' so that they can have influence in the world. They WANT something in this world and they have invested enormous time and energy in getting it. In the meantime people will be fobbed off with all kinds of 'revelations' and pseudo spiritual overtones.

Many people think that civilization will go through a very difficult phase in the near future with much suffering, famine and general collapse. No doubt these beings are aware of this if it is going to happen and want to capitalise on it.

originally posted by: objectman
But you guys are still here. A lot of abductees aren't. I really meant abductees who have passed on.

So if they were trained either

a) the greys themselves don't know when the destruction will come so they train everyone up anyway or

b) the knowledge and training will kick in during the human's next life or

c) the greys are just appealing to our "helpful nature" and vanity and really they just want sperm and eggs and are trying to obfuscate this simple fact with complex trickery and distraction?

Nice to see a thread actually discussing the ramifications of abductions instead of getting bogged down with the usual distractions.

Some good ideas thrown around. I haven't been abducted, that I recall, but have read up on the topic, if it is happening and the evidence strongly points in that direction, it has to be one of the top priorities for mankind to figure out the motivations behind it.

OP, your a,b and c points are interesting, but seem to assume we are just talking about one alien race. From what I have read, there are at least three races abducting people.

1. The Nordic type that looks very similar to us - show people visions of future catastrophe's - are they trying to build a grassroots movement of people to educate people into living on the earth more wisely? They don't seem to do any experiments and leave memories intact.

2. The grays - seem to just want to experiment on people, take sexual genetic material, do some implants. Some see this as torture, it does seem horrific, but I don't think we should anthropomorphise them, they are just dispassionate about what they have to do, are they breeding hybrids? Why? If they plan on introducing hybrids into the world at some point, what will happen to regular humans? Will we live together? Will one try to get rid of the other like we did to Neanderthal man?

3. The type that is involved with the National Park abductions covered by David Paulides. These people are usually not returned alive or at all, unlike in #2 above where they usually seem to be returned alive with a memory wipe or screen memories.

4. What type is doing cattle mutilations? What type is doing crop circles? And why for both?


What kind of catastrophes are at issue here? I think there are two kinds, one, the slow moving destruction of our planet from pollution, overpopulation and the like. Two, the sudden kind, something from outer space?

Dr David Jacobs mentions that many of his abductee patients have said the grays have told them that everything will change - what do people think about that?

There certainly are many more questions than answers, but threads like this may help us move closer to the truth or some truth.

a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

I don't think cattle mutiliation has anything to do with aliens, or abductions.

Carrion animals eat soft tissues of the body cavities first — the mouth, tongue, anus, nose, eyes, and teats. That’s why those are the parts that would be discovered “missing” in an animal discovered dead after several days or weeks. Without knowing what killed an animal, it’s impossible to determine the exact time of death. Most “mysteriously killed” animals are found within a few days, which is plenty of time for an animal’s soft parts to be completely gone. This case is also typical in that the animals are said to have been drained of blood. This, too, has a scientific explanation. Blood will naturally begin to clot and coagulate after the animal dies, creating the appearance of a disappearance of blood. The blood of course hasn’t gone anywhere. It has just partly dried up, and the water content has evaporated—especially likely given the sweltering heat that has baked the state. Unless the animal is professionally necropsied, it will appear that the carcass has been drained of blood — a process detailed in my book, “Tracking the Chupacabra: The Vampire Beast in Fact, Fiction, and Folklore.” So what did kill three of Mitchell’s cows over the past three years? Cattle deaths are not unheard of, and can be caused by many things including lightning, dehydration, illness, injury, and predators. Mitchell believes that her cows did not die a natural death, however, and has vowed to install surveillance cameras on her ranch to identify the culprits. If the answer is anything but natural causes, we will likely hear about it.

newsDiscovery
Also the Nordic Aliens sound very much like a new-golden dawn, nazi invention, if you ask me. As far as i know the grey appareance is also just some sort of "mind trick".

This whole topic is so messed up and tainted it is hard to establish any facts really, so Kudos, to you a reply to: objectman
for finding a way to start a discussion about this topic in a way that allows us to look at what we have without having to prove it is aliens in the first place.
I too like the idea Earth is part of a five to thirteen planets reincarnation cycle. But to me that's at the same time a bit amazing, because in a nutshell we admit with this, we are threatened by ourselfes. Unless of course it would be others trying to jump in that cycle and that's why they have to mix breed? Or is it just an anti-xenophobia-vaccination?
I have no cool abduction story, just a pathetic tiny NDE and since that i got an "alien parasite in my mind", but that's not unheard of that these experiences can cause severe alterations in ones personality, maybe it is just schizophrenia?
The difficulty is, as long as no one admits the technology to record our mind-experiences exists we will barely be able to prove it. And the ones who have the tech would probably be also the ones we're afraid of...

a reply to: Peeple

This is off-topic so I will not delve too-deeply apart from a few points on cattle mutilation:

1. Who do you think first reports the mutilations? It is of course ranchers and farmers. They have seen many carcasses from predation over their lives and know generally what it looks like - the mutilations are so far from regular predation is the reason why they take time out from their 16hr days to bother to report it. You don't think they have never seen carcasses from predation? Can't recognize it?

2. Vascular collapse is seen in many animals - the blood has not dried, clotted or drained - it is gone. Usually there is no blood on the ground either.

3. Most predators will eat what is in the abdominal cavity first, some do go after the rear - in most mutilations surgical cuts are seen on the head and neck, certain glands gone, and only a small amount of tissue gone.

4. No predator tracks around or even near the animal.

In my opinion cattle mutilations are part of the big picture with ET's, they may not be ET related but it seems like one of the best explanations if you don't need official recognition to accept it, and by including possible reasons for cattle mutilations into our "big picture" it may help understand other things. Of course we must also be willing to discard it if it doesn't seem to help.

But we must be open minded about this abduction issue, and as with any mystery, the more valid data points we have, the better chance at solving the mystery.

Ive had abduction experiences. I cant swear what they are or without a doubt that they are real. That said, my experiences involved greys. And the one time i have "memory" of on ship, they did a few procedures but seemed mostly interested in probing my mind, specifically for memories where I made moral choices.

I havent had any of these experiences in recent years that i remember but of course that doesnt necessarily indicate if its still occurring (if it ever was). I had many experiences as a child and was terrified of the short grey men that would take me through my window, though i couldnt ever actually remember the act of being taken itself. I once, also as a child experienced a craft fly overhead of a vehicle i was traveling in with my family. We arrived 3 hours late to our destination, but when my grandfather asked my folks questions about why they took an extra 3 hours, they would only reply that "we must have stopped somewhere". I was aware that we expeeienced missing time, though I didnt understand why at the time. This was all pre internet and i really hadnt known anything about aliens at all.

a reply to: EnPassant

So far a very thoughtful thread, so color me shocked!
I too think the spiritual overtones people are left with after an abduction are obfuscating the experience. In practical terms the whole deal can & should be more compared to what we recognize as "abusive behaviors". Seen thru that lense,
without ascribing human qualities, just the cut & dried common denominators there really isn't any way this is in our best interests as a species.

A little counterintuitive there as I know, but bear with it a moment. What separates us as humans from other animals is our so called "benign" study of them. It's neither very benign or beneficial to them as individuals. Another tennant of study is the need for a large population of test subjects for something to be considered a "valid" study.

Both of these components are present in what we refer to as the abductee experience, in broad terms.

JMO but along with EnPassant's train of thought I'm not seeing the upside in this for us as a species. It's just overall a line of BS of which separating fact from partial glimpses into what actually happened to those reporting is almost impossible. This can't be accidental. I believe the abductee's are telling the truth as they recollect it, it's just what they are "allowed" to recollect is fragmentary.

One thing that strikes me is the reoccurrent reincarnation theme. I am of the mindset that this while probable true, is also being "twisted" by the abductors. Used as another psychological tool to their benefit. To truly contemplate "alien contact" you should by all rights begin with the idea that they are truly alien. They do NOT think as we do, do not experience things in a way we have any frame of reference for. We are basically just guessing at their reasons and motives.

Playing the devils advocate, what if ,in regards to how they experience the passage of time they only personally experience the "now" and not past or future? That puts all the stories of human destruction into another light as they "may" be just appalled or concerned with what they are currently seeing us do and it's repeated to us absolutely out of it's "context".

Mixing up the dinosaurs cataclysmic events with WW2, with our current genetic modifications of crops, with the pollution in China....just a hodgepodge of OMG??? & WTF???? By assuming their context is the same as ours right there
it loops us off into assuming things that "aren't".

So back to the facts of their demonstrated behavior.....yeah.....stealth abductions, sketchy recall of events, incomprehensible to us alleged medical testing & biological tampering. Allegedly advanced technologies....none of this appears to be in our own best interests as humans. Frankly you wouldn't let a total stranger walk up to you and just take a DNA swab, but some people WOULD ascribe a beneficial reason to being kidnapped and having their own psychological biases played on as well as allegedly having random procedures implemented.

um.....no.
That is some seriously faulty reasoning JMO.....
It's also behaviors we are cautioned to guard against lest human history replay itself in a horrific way. I agree wholeheartedly the exchange between them & us appears to be very one-sided.

originally posted by: WHWIV
If I were being abducted regularly and knew it was likely to happen again I would be all over it with whatever instruments, witnesses, and other ways to make it provable to someone who didn't have the experience. That's just me.

I understand the point, but when my experiences first happened, it took me by surprise. First I was in my car and driving, then it was my husband and I while driving in the middle of the night, in which a bright light came upon us. The moment was mind blowing and we were yelling and panicking, and then - a black out, a skip in time. We had no time to think of such things.

When it became more regular from home, two things- one, I assumed I was crazy. I had to be hallucinating. I do not believe in aliens, I did not want to believe in them, and I was not going to make a bunch of effort to prove something real that I was desperately trying to believe wasn't!
Secondly, and maybe a little less relevant, this was before we had android phones and ones with the capability to take photos or video. What would take little effort to do now was a rather big deal back then. It would have meant spending a LOT of money on a big VHS camera, and setting it up at night with a timer maybe, which would entail talking about the events. We were pretty upset about it all, and had trouble talking about it, both of us just wanted to forget and pretend it didn't happen.

It's one thing to consider this from afar, but when you are in the middle of the emotional turmoil, really, the last thing you are concerned about is telling anyone about it, or proving it. There is no sense that anyone else could possibly help you even if you did have proof.