Bruce Jenner and the "Transgender"

Recent evidence has come to light: Jenner ruptured both testicles in hurdling mis-hap. This, according to his therapist, has led him to a state of confusion. Therefore, his surgeon advised he cut everything off. This after consultations with the family matriarch - the one with the big cooley.

a reply to: Harvin

Breaking News:

Jenners package is on the chopping block for auction. Sadly, price is according to the inch so it is not expected to fetch much. But organisers remain optimistic stating -"it's for charity".

i don't know why people care what others do with their own life, him being a woman or transgendered has literally no effect on any of your lives. If you have some moral outrage over it calm down because there is murders, rapes, war, thefts, premarital sex and billions of other "sins" every day, get over it. I don't understand it but that's because I don't have to deal with what he has to but I don't understand the hate for it at all.

originally posted by: BoxFulder
If you have some moral outrage over it calm down because there is murders, rapes, war, thefts, premarital sex and billions of other "sins" every day, get over it.

Hmmmm... One of those things isn't like the other... What happened to not caring what other people do with their lives?

If a grown ass man decided he wants to be a woman, what business of ours is it to interfere? Oh, he's a B-List celebrity. That's why. People get gender reassignment surgery every single day. Why this one is suddenly a topic of discussion is solely based on his limited celebrity status.

This isn't a big deal, it happens all the time. If you find it gross, well you always have the option of not interacting with the subject at hand.

I am a transgender woman.

To think "Denying ignorance" is the basis of this forum, and here I stumble upon this thread. lol.

I had to stop reading after the first few pages because of the level of ignorance I was encountering, especially by the OP. Some of you get it but the majority don't. First and foremost if you are not transgender yourself, than you can't comment on Bruce's situation because you do not understand it at all, in fact you need to just shut up because you DO NOT understand being transgender no matter how much you think you know about the mind. That is the same as me being white thinking I have any right to say I understand the black struggle, it is ignorant and foolish to assume.

Why are you cisgender? (non transgender) What psychological phenomenon occured in your life that caused you to be this way? Is it a lack of knowledge of self as the OP suggests that causes you to identify with your assigned sex at birth? I mean clearly there is no evidence to support your mind/soul really identifies with your gender.

Pretty stupid to be asked something you know to be fundamentally true about yourself isnt it? Now you will see why there is so much bitterness in the few posts I make here. Because cis/ignorance is embraced in ATS.

a reply to: honested3

Hugs from another another transgender sister

originally posted by: honested3

I am a transgender woman.

I have no wish to cause any offence, or patronise in any way, so I ask you
this woman to woman ...

I have to ask why did you start your post like that? Having taken the desired
step why do you continue to prefix woman with transgender?

First and foremost if you are not transgender yourself, than you can't comment on Bruce's situation because you do not understand it at all, in fact you need to just shut up because you DO NOT understand being transgender no matter how much you think you know about the mind. That is the same as me being white thinking I have any right to say I understand the black struggle, it is ignorant and foolish to assume.

As you have said *you being white will not be able to understand the black
struggle* ....

Likewise Bruce being male will not be able (as he has stated) to *know how
a woman feels* ...only to 'assume'
When he is transgendered he will have the outward appearance of a woman
but he will still be missing essential female organs, so will never be a
'complete woman'.
I say this because some years ago I refused a hysterectomy operation, with
the irrational feeling that they would be taking my 'femininity' away.
The surgeon said that although in reality it would make no difference to me ...
he understood that mentally I would not adjust.


It is never possible to know how another feels .... but it IS always possible
to empathise with them??

An acceptance story.

Brown, sharing her story with People magazine, says she's come a long way from fearing her classmates' reactions to her gender identity to being crowned queen. "The people at my school are so accepting and so supportive -- they accept me exactly as I am," she explained. "It's a scary thing when you first come out and tell people you're transgender, but everyone has been great. My friends at school have helped me to live an authentic life, to be who I am."

www.advocate.com...

I get your point, and agree generally speaking.

But when it comes to spirituality, philosophy, identity, etc, and a whole slew of topics, from racism to hetercentrism, etc ad infinitum, the nature of identity and self DOES matter.

I could care less what someone wants to identify as.

However, some is a bit illusory.

For example, it would seem that much of people's "identity" with gender is still derived from patriarchal and societally constructed norms of what genders are. Take those away and then people suddenly might not be "transgendered" or a "woman in a man's body."

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: honested3

Hugs from another another transgender sister

Hugs back! : )

a reply to: eletheia

"I have to ask why did you start your post like that? Having taken the desired
step why do you continue to prefix woman with transgender?"

Because I am a transgender woman, and you are a cisgender woman. I prefix it with transgender because that is what I am. I can never be a cisgender woman moreso than you can be a transgender woman, but still we are both women.

"Likewise Bruce being male will not be able (as he has stated) to *know how
a woman feels* ...only to 'assume'
When he is transgendered he will have the outward appearance of a woman
but he will still be missing essential female organs, so will never be a
'complete woman'.
I say this because some years ago I refused a hysterectomy operation, with
the irrational feeling that they would be taking my 'femininity' away.
The surgeon said that although in reality it would make no difference to me ...
he understood that mentally I would not adjust. "

Do you know how its feels to be a woman? Seriously ask yourself that question and ponder on it. What defines being and understanding what it feels to be a woman? Is it the biology and is that all? I am not fooling myself and saying I know what it is like to experience menstrual cramps. pregnancy, or menopause etc, but is that all that makes a woman? Where do the feelings come from? From having a female body or from having a female mind?

This isn't some mumbo jumbo philosophical speak, this is actual biology. We are all female to start with, is it so hard to understand that my brain remained female even though the rest of my body received male hormones?

You accuse me of not feeling or knowing something you truly cannot know yourself. So again, transgender woman or cisgender woman, we are both still women. You can remain ignorant about this but it doesn't make it any less true.

Guy just caused the death of a woman and this is all people can talk about?

Our culture is at a low point.

originally posted by: honested3


Do you know how its feels to be a woman? Seriously ask yourself that question and ponder on it. What defines being and understanding what it feels to be a woman? Is it the biology and is that all? I am not fooling myself and saying I know what it is like to experience menstrual cramps. pregnancy, or menopause etc, but is that all that makes a woman? Where do the feelings come from? From having a female body or from having a female mind?

I pondered on it ... and decided that NO I didn't know what it feels like to
be a *woman* there is no template for me to compare with what a woman
feels like.

*I just feel like ME*

And being in the body of a female I took it for granted
that that is what a woman feels like. Over the years there were physical things
I may have liked to alter but learned to live with.

The majority of my working life I worked with and did well in a totally male
enviroment in competition with, and feeling totally at home. In fact I was
treated as 'one of the boys'.
A Psychiatrist I once went out with told me I drove like a man!...
so I suppose there is male influence in me ... somewhere?

It is only due to science and the progress of the medical professions
excellence of today, that it is now able to change the sex of a person.
Prior to this people just had to be who they were born? The mind
boggles at the number of people who must have managed to live their
lives through the past 2000 years and more as *who they were born*?

I am curious as to why there are three times more M to F than there are F to M?

a reply to: eletheia

I can't really answer for the older generations well before mine, but yes I feel it must have been terribly difficult just being forced to live in your assigned gender. Then again that could be argued as 'gender' is defined by society and few societies have been as stearn in gender roles as we are in America (that I know of.)

I am glad to see you say that you are just you, that is what I am as well.

There has been a lot of speculation on there being more M2F than F2M, the most popular theory is that it is okay for a birth-assigned female to express themselves in a masculine way, but there is no room for a birth-assigned man to express femininity. It is not to say that M2Fs have it more difficult than F2Ms but that our society is more accepting of a 'tomboy' than they are of a 'sissy boy'.

I don't know the guy outside of a couple of articles back during his athlete days. Is he known for anything else beyond his gender identity?

With that being said, if it makes him happy I think he should go all out. It's important we feel comfortable in our own skin.

originally posted by: honested3
I am a transgender woman.

To think "Denying ignorance" is the basis of this forum, and here I stumble upon this thread. lol.

I had to stop reading after the first few pages because of the level of ignorance I was encountering, especially by the OP. Some of you get it but the majority don't. First and foremost if you are not transgender yourself, than you can't comment on Bruce's situation because you do not understand it at all, in fact you need to just shut up because you DO NOT understand being transgender no matter how much you think you know about the mind. That is the same as me being white thinking I have any right to say I understand the black struggle, it is ignorant and foolish to assume.

Why are you cisgender? (non transgender) What psychological phenomenon occured in your life that caused you to be this way? Is it a lack of knowledge of self as the OP suggests that causes you to identify with your assigned sex at birth? I mean clearly there is no evidence to support your mind/soul really identifies with your gender.

Pretty stupid to be asked something you know to be fundamentally true about yourself isnt it? Now you will see why there is so much bitterness in the few posts I make here. Because cis/ignorance is embraced in ATS.

September 3, 2015

Here is something I had never considered. Transgendered (Men-to-Women) people have totally different clothing needs. For instance, it's hard to find a size 12 lady's shoe at most women's clothing stores. Caitlin is starting a line of apparel to fill that unique market niche. Bravo to her!

Ref: okmagazine.com...

-cwm