Car Companies Say Home Repairs Are 'Legally Problematic,' Seek Copyright Restrictions

a reply to: generik

I hear you

I used to encounter a lot of mechanics (actually employed as auto mechanics) who'd destroy nuts and bolts on a metric car simply because they only had imperial spanners - that convinced me to do most maintenance myself so I'd at least know what wasn't as it should be. Then it was the mechanics who hadn't been keeping up with tech and didn't have a clue when it came to electronic fuel injection and engine management systems so I had to educate myself there as well so I didn't need to rely on them. Even the major dealership's mechanics had no clue about the latest engine management systems they were selling which was disappointing to say the least.

originally posted by: bullcat

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Keeping all service and repair work with the manufacturer with make for a more reliable used car market. I would feel better knowing that the trade-in sitting on the lot has been serviced there as well.

Dealer serviced used cars hold their value better. I think this is a good move for consumers. I do not take my car to the dealer even though they make it very easy. I cancelled it but normally I would get a call to book an appointment whenever my km reached the service limit.

Complete rubbish.

Perhaps you need some protectionist laws for the consumer over in America.

We can get our cars serviced by any competent service center and have the book stamped and the manufacturer MUST honour the warranty.

All this claim of America being land of the free and all that huff puff, and socialism is evil. Well, it sure seems to work out better for us here in Europe for the consumer. That is why the yanks are trying to ruin it with TTIP. We will burn American companies before we let TTIP take hold.


American companies cannot compete in Europe so they throw in the towel and flee, because they realise they have to respect their customers over here to survive. They can't handle that. I am quite happy for American car manufacturers (and indeed any American company that won't play by our rules) company to stay the hell out of Europe.


I would rather buy Russian and from other places first. In fact I do buy Russian parts, America is no longer the top dog in the economy. That is why they are doing everything they can to prevent the rest of the world from succeeding, they are sticking a wedge between Europe and Russia, they are trying to ruin our system with TTIP etc.

Why would I buy American cars?

What have they got over a Kia with high MPG, 7 year warranty and a very good service.

The only EX-American car that seems to be succeeding over here is Jeep (and that is now owned by Fiat Lol).

You cant compete with Audi, VW, Kia, BMW, Mercedes etc over here.

We can do all that here as well but it is not very reliable. Anyone can get a warranty accreditation to fix under warranty. That does not make it a reliable repair just because they applied for certification. The manufacturer cannot police all the out of house repair shops to ensure the consumer is getting the proper replacement part.

Maybe the Canadian armed forces should have had a bill like this, and maybe all of our military equipment wouldn't be full of cheap knock off Chinese replacement parts.

And not to make this a car thread but what does Europe have on that market? Say in the 5-700 hp for $65-90,000 sector?
You can keep your sensitive, overpriced euro crap.

Want to watch a Camaro spank a lambo and a porche on the nuremberg?

As a mechanic I've worked on 60-70's muscle cars
all the way to my wife's new model. The consensus?
The auto manufacturers have been steadily making it
more and more difficult to do even simple repairs.
Requiring special tools to remove stupid plastic panels
that do nothing but inhibit what is already challenging
about repair work.

Screw them let's have a car company
that makes a 15,000 all electric car you plug into
your house with roll up windows and one
that ANYONE can do matinence on.

Dealerships will tell you service is where the money is,
and service managers are nothing but pirates without
the ship or sea.

a reply to: MALBOSIA
do I want to watch a Z/28 blow the doors off a lambo
on a German race track ? Hell yes ! and Thank you !

originally posted by: UnderKingsPeak
a reply to: MALBOSIA
do I want to watch a Z/28 blow the doors off a lambo
on a German race track ? Hell yes ! and Thank you !

It even rained the last 2 min.

American businesses tend to ruin good things for the sake of profits but I do not mock their intuitiveness with the internal combustion engine. That LS7 was barely working - maybe a couple times...

Poor lambo would break it's voice box trying to keep up that.

Mercedes AMG seems to be ok. If I understand it, they spent some time working with Dodge

originally posted by: UnderKingsPeak
As a mechanic I've worked on 60-70's muscle cars
all the way to my wife's new model. The consensus?
The auto manufacturers have been steadily making it
more and more difficult to do even simple repairs.
Requiring special tools to remove stupid plastic panels
that do nothing but inhibit what is already challenging
about repair work.

Screw them let's have a car company
that makes a 15,000 all electric car you plug into
your house with roll up windows and one
that ANYONE can do matinence on.

Dealerships will tell you service is where the money is,
and service managers are nothing but pirates without
the ship or sea.

I have spent the last year doing renovations on BMW dealers in my area. The repair and service division of those dealers are businesses on their own. The operation is double the size of the sales side. All day. The bays are never empty. You can tell by the layout and merchandising of the whole thing that service and repairs are that European manufacturers bread and butter.

Europe and Japan have been doing this for years. The hardest part about owning an import in the 90's was mechanics hated working on them.

US retailers have been missing a lot of revenue. The dealerships I have purchased GM and Ford (I like em BOTH) that I have owned, did not have such a consumer geared service department like BMW does. They were basically laid out like a Kal-Tire. "Come if you want to, there's the popcorn and coffee" type service. There didn't have 60" screens, leather couch and fireplace with full coffee bar. The fireplace I'm framing at the current reno is purdy nice. And VERY expensive.

Bottom line will be this. If they won't let car enthusiasts and home mechanics work on their cars, then car enthusiasts and home mechanics won't BUY their cars.

I just like to be able to work on stuff man if I need too. And I like to be able to take every little thing apart and fix that too if possible. If there is a coil somewhere on the car and it fries, I want to be able to take it apart, rewind it and get it back going in a pinch if I have too. I don't won't it to be some throw away part that I can't get into without destroying it.

I can't afford dealers repair, if I could I'd be the first one on their door step. I can barely afford the head gaskests that my Windstar van needs right now with me doing the repair myself. I've gotten prices from 400 to 2000 bucks to do the job.
The 400 buck guy, he'd probably do it for sure but it might be six months before I see the van again. The 2000 buck guy, he is a top notch Ace mechanic and I just aint gonna pay that kind of money. LOL!

These vans with aluminium heads are notorious for blowing head gaskets and needing changed about every 80,000 miles from what I understand. Supposedly because of the aluminium heads contracting and expanding more than the old metal heads did, over time it wears the gasket out prematurely. If left unseen about for too long water finally gets into the oil and ruins the rod bearings. So new engine time.

All I want is a vehicle that lasts, that I can work on and I can change the plugs or fuel pump without lifting the body off the vehicle. I want to be able to open the hood and get to the entire motor like you could in the 70's.

If there is a circuit board on the car somewhere that blows a chip, I want to be able to identify the part, desolder and resolder the $1.50 part back in there instead of buying a new circuit board. So the car should come with electrical schematics of everything. LOL!
And that's no joke my friends!

The folks making some of these vehicles and crazy laws should serve 10 to 20 years in the garages working on them.

originally posted by: babybunnies
Bottom line will be this. If they won't let car enthusiasts and home mechanics work on their cars, then car enthusiasts and home mechanics won't BUY their cars.

Buy something off warranty if you want to mod. Why would you waste money buying a car on warranty if you plan to modify it? And why should a manufacturer cover the cost of repairing a vehicle that is no longer operating at the guaranteed manufacturer specifications?

I don't know why this is so hard to swallow. How is this any different than electronics? Someone brought up PC and the fact that you can interchange parts but that is an entirely different manufacturing model. You cannot get a car built from a manufacturer with a Honda engine, Nissan transmission, in a Lexus body with BMW rims. That would be cool but that is not how it works.

It took me awhile to learn about sensors, what was needed to change air/fuel ratios, rev limiters, throttle response and water temperature settings on my 2007 Honda Fit to get decent performance without hurting the way it drives with an endless number of performance parts including a Kraftwerks supercharger, water/methanol injection, racing intake manifold, tubular racing header and open exhaust.. The little car will run rings around my Audi A6 Quattro and still smoothly idle like a stock one does.. I still have a mess of parts to install including racing clutch and engine mounts.. At 65 years of age it is getting difficult to turn wrenches, but there are young guys I know that like to give me a hand on occasion.. There will always be people that can't resist the temptation to build fast little sleepers to shut down high priced factory built performance cars and there will always be someone creating the parts needed to make them faster while still staying together.. Driving long distances at highway speeds are tiring due to the droning exhaust note but earplugs and wider throttle setting helps some.

'Automakers to gearheads: Stop repairing cars'

Car-buying public to carmakers...Stop making cars that need to be repaired at exorbitant prices!

Å99

originally posted by: akushla99
'Automakers to gearheads: Stop repairing cars'

Car-buying public to carmakers...Stop making cars that need to be repaired at exorbitant prices!

Å99

Just keep your km down and trade in every 3 years. Actually Mazda is advertising unlimited km for duration of warranty instead of whichever comes first. There are tones of 0% financing deals, especially at GM so you could actually have some equity in it after 3 years to trade in. Not much. I just worked it out and I would have 5000 equity in the vehicle I have now after trading in 2 years later. That was a 84 month 0% from GM.

I don't want to sound like a salesman but now is the time to buy LOL. Domestics are making a go of it again with American and Canadian tax dollars and their models are showing great numbers, are ahead in many areas and WTF, it's YOUR money that went into Corvettes new $100,000,000 facility... go out and enjoy one.

Corvette Z06


Camaro Z28


Normally I would say I might wait for the ZR1 if it ever comes but I'm starting to wonder if Camaro is naturally more race bread than the Corvette that might go the way of SLS from Mercedes. Iconic, but not a top performer.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Thanx for the advice...I'm a fluke buyer/former tinkerer...in '10 I bought (on a whim), out of a 4x4 yard (I never would have surveyed) a '97 GT Probe in pristine condition throughout (original 65.000kms)...largest expense to date - timing chain...otherwise, a magnificent car...I.e. Not looking in the near future...

Å99

.....so glad i drive a car made before the rise of "infotainment" systems, "drive by wire", "reverse cameras", "auto-breaking", and all the other technological horses**t they pack into new cars these days....couldn't pay me to take one of those things. I'll stick with older cars that i have full control over, and that are just good at being cars.

originally posted by: dothedew
This won't stand. Courts recently ruled against Apple, in regards to jail breaking iPhones, saying its perfectly legal to modify programming after purchase.

I understand that they claim safety is a potential issue, but color me crazy, the only safety issues I've ever heard of regarding any onboard vehicle systems, were directly the fault of the manufacturer, not aftermarket mods.....

If they do end up upholding the claim based on the logic of safety, I hope the silver lining will at least be getting unsafe vehicles off the road. In the Chicago metro area, your car's exhaust has to be practically breathable air, and we spend a ludicrous asking if tax money ensuring it is so. We don't, however, give a bleep if people are driving around on bald tires, bad brakes, steering racks hanging by a thread (of rust), etc.

If they claim safety, I will actually LOL hysterically while pointing at any who make that claim.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Resistors are not storage devices. They convert a specific amount of current to heat in order to reduce total output (watts). That reduction in output can be used as a signaling event in another part of a circuit but as a storage system
It's a very poor one. Most engine control modules now have between 5 to 500 seconds of onboard memory recording everything from throttle position to braking events to seatbelt tensioning
So insurance companies use them to confirm or deny claims and to defend or start lawsuits over car accidents.

Resistors in terms of vehicles tend to be heavily used in car keys to confirm that a car is allowed to start. One or more resistors in the key reduce the current from the ignition by a specific amount in a specific order and thus forms a binary number which is read by the engine controller. That number coming from the key's tiny resistors
must match the one burned into the engines memory system which then lets you start the car.

Since some keys are reprogrammable, a Varistor
(variable resistor) can be used in the key to provide
Changeable key code functionality. Nowadays, BMW, Mercedes, Corvettes, Cadillacs use lots of computer memory on the key fob to support an encrypted wireless key coding system with four
billion+ combinations or more.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: babybunnies
Bottom line will be this. If they won't let car enthusiasts and home mechanics work on their cars, then car enthusiasts and home mechanics won't BUY their cars.

Buy something off warranty if you want to mod. Why would you waste money buying a car on warranty if you plan to modify it? And why should a manufacturer cover the cost of repairing a vehicle that is no longer operating at the guaranteed manufacturer specifications?

I don't know why this is so hard to swallow. How is this any different than electronics? Someone brought up PC and the fact that you can interchange parts but that is an entirely different manufacturing model. You cannot get a car built from a manufacturer with a Honda engine, Nissan transmission, in a Lexus body with BMW rims. That would be cool but that is not how it works.

WANNA BET !!! I can put in a Ram truck's Cummins diesel into a Ford F450 truck and put in one of the heavier duty GMC Allison transmissions into same...AND THEN add the straight pipes from a
Kenworth to make look all "Way Cool"...and just for kicks i can put high temp high pressure ceramic liners and a few other parts to bring
The truck to 2000 (Two Thousand!) horsepower and 1400 foot/pounds of torque which will Stomp on almost everything out there!

AND FINALLY FOR GOOD MEASURE....I can put a custom FPGA ECM chip into a Mustang Cobra, replace the crank and rods with titanium and ceramic liners to bring that baby to 1300 hp.
Custom Engine Controller Chips can be had almost anywhere with open source software.

Locally up here in Vancouver, one guy totally
Refitted everything in his ZR1 Corvette including a 1800 hp Pratt & Whitney turbine to do a 2.8 sec
0 to 100 KPH (60 mph) so just sayin if you wanna avoid the dealers and big three manufacturers, YOU CAN DO THE WORK YOURSELF!

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
I don't know why this is so hard to swallow. How is this any different than electronics? Someone brought up PC and the fact that you can interchange parts but that is an entirely different manufacturing model. You cannot get a car built from a manufacturer with a Honda engine, Nissan transmission, in a Lexus body with BMW rims. That would be cool but that is not how it works.

I'm pretty sure I saw a mod exactly like that, it was originally a GS200 with an Honda F20C if memory serves me correctly...

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: liejunkie01
a reply to: pheonix358

As a "American" you dont have to buy nothing, you only CHOOSE to buy something, thats kinda how freedom and freemarkets work.

If patrotism is buying a #ty product then poor you

Actually not any more. Now we have to buy health insurance or get fined.

a reply to: StargateSG7
The closest thing to that, with a factory warranty would be Sterling. Sure you can do anything with enough money but why do it on warrenty and why should warranty just trust you that you did a good job?