The future of Europe and the USA

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: Jonjonj

Is there any example IN RECENT history where Americans didnt put their asses in the way of bullets for ALL western interests?

Did you REALLY use the first world war as your example? Europe is ALWAYS neutral where possible in our military efforts.

Hell, only the UK and Australia can be counted on to be there getting shot at with our guys no matter what....

This is silly. You really think that if there is an all out war that we will SUDDENLY and completely out of character, just practice ISOLATIONISM?

If you do then fine. I dont even know how to address this nonsense. WW1 for crying out loud.

We didnt even have a freaking army worth a damn during WW1, at least not one that was any better than a south American nation. We were an agricultural nation with like 12 tanks....or something insane like that. LOL

EDIT TO ADD:
I dont know about everyone else, but if anyone touches our cousins in the UK there will be hell to pay. In an all out war even my useless ass would join up. You can bet that in a situation of all out war in Europe that our real warriors would be there in a heart beat. The idiots like me would be there too. There is no way in hell we wouldnt.

You don't understand perhaps where my idea is coming from. I don't nor would ever doubt the commitment of the USA nor its soldiers once in battle, how could I ever do that? impossible. I do however doubt the political will of the USA to help/protect its partners in a game of poker that, let's be honest, is being played right now.

a reply to: Jonjonj

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."

-Winston Churchill

Probably not what you were hoping for but, true nonetheless.

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Jonjonj

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."

-Winston Churchill

Probably not what you were hoping for but, true nonetheless.

Here is what I didn't want, I wanted to know, truthfully, from the mouth of the average American, how they feel about Europe and the situation. I still haven't seen that except from what I believe to be honourable servicemen or the disaffected . As an Englishman, speaking on behalf I think of all NATO members (in my mind of course) and in particular UK residents, damn!!!!!! I want my buddy to stand up and say yeah, with ya, all the feckin way!!! A bit of back up is all.
The present situation scares me you see, I have a young son, he doesn't live in UK but the point is clear.

originally posted by: Jonjonj

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Jonjonj

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."

-Winston Churchill

Probably not what you were hoping for but, true nonetheless.

Here is what I didn't want, I wanted to know, truthfully, from the mouth of the average American, how they feel about Europe and the situation. I still haven't seen that except from what I believe to be honourable servicemen or the disaffected . As an Englishman, speaking on behalf I think of all NATO members (in my mind of course) and in particular UK residents, damn!!!!!! I want my buddy to stand up and say yeah, with ya, all the feckin way!!! A bit of back up is all.
The present situation scares me you see, I have a young son, he doesn't live in UK but the point is clear.

Well, if you just want a fist bump, we individual Americans stand with you individual Brits. The average American wouldn't bother to make that distinction but, would have the same attitude.

The US is part and parcel of NATOs military defense strategy. It is non negotiable so you shouldn't worry about that.

What we should all be scared about is that our governments have deluded themselves into believing that encouraging our enemies and weakening our deterrence is beneficial somehow. There are people in both of our governments who are, in fact, traitors.

We should not be surprised if this results in conflict.

I reread this a couple of times and can't think of much else to say that isn't historical or irrelevant to the reaffirmation that you seek.

Have a look...medium.com...

From the same place an asessment of British air power..medium.com...

a reply to: Jonjonj

Really? You think you're such good friends to us and would never go astray?

How about this? The UK has decided to go against us and join the BRICS countries in their bid to create a new world bank. It made the headlines here and angered the powers that be.

"UK snubs US to join China-led Asian bank."

Here's the link: thebricspost.com...-Dw

originally posted by: pfishy

originally posted by: pavmas
a reply to: pfishy

lol, people in the UK stand at a bus top and ignore a girl screaming getting raped, they ignore a young girl getting attacked on a train, they let their disabled be treat the same as the nazis treated their disabled, they turn a blind eye and let children be molested in their thousands, they refuse to defend children going hungry and pensioners dying of cold in an oil producing nation, but if anyone dares attack this they will defend it with their last breath, rubbish' Maggie T said their was no such thing as society and boy was she right, everyone in the UK is out for there selves. Put it this way I would not fight because I could not trust others in the UK to watch my back, the invaders would be more trustworthy.

Which.is why I can say I don't know if anyone else here would attempt to join the fight over there. But yeah, you can certainly trust the invaders. To kill you.
And I think you'd be surprised what you find in your fellow citizens if Russia were invading. There's a lot more fight in you Brits than most realize, my friend.

I couldn't agree more, it is the "stiff upper lip" factor in action.

Anyone who invades the UK is in for it.

Let's just take stock real fast.

The British, a long proud history of absolute bravery in the face of certain death.

The Scottish... Lol enough said, those crazy bastards when threatened just don't give a .....

The Irish, ah my people..... What to say about my people in the old country. If we are ready to have a drink and a fight with family and friends at the drop of a hat.

What do you think would happen if you threatened their family and friends?

Just saying, invading the UK is like invading Sparta, it is absolutely stupid incarnate just off the top.

These are all hardly folks that will fight, and fight well at that.

If that isn't worth fighting with, I don't know what is.

originally posted by: MRuss
a reply to: Jonjonj

Really? You think you're such good friends to us and would never go astray?

How about this? The UK has decided to go against us and join the BRICS countries in their bid to create a new world bank. It made the headlines here and angered the powers that be.

"UK snubs US to join China-led Asian bank."

Here's the link: thebricspost.com...-Dw

When did we join BRICS? As far as I have heard BRICS is Brazil, Russia, India China and South Africa.
We did choose to join AIIB as it is our goal NOT to be left out of any and all trade. I don't get your point, I suspect you are being goaded to hate though.

Thank you to all those who chose to actually answere the question. I believe now that, regardless of what politicians may say, at the end of the day, and if push came to shove, we would indeed have the backing of if not the government, then at least the people. These things are important you see, for one's peace of mind.

Those days of isolationism are over for the foreseeable future. Although no matter what the US does it will be hated for it.

We get involved and we are hated and need to mind our own business. We don't get involved and then it's where were we how could we let this happen.

ETA: My personal view is that Europe are our brothers, and you don't let people mess with family.

After reading the whole thread I think this thread is nothing more than an vieled attacked on the character of our American brothers and sisters.
OP you really should read more than two lines sometimes....they know history better than you.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I see many countries as our children...the USA for one and any other country which used to have us in charge....ex colonies ect are doing very well in the world.
I doubt anyone living their would complain with the knowledge we taught them.
Ahhh likkle American children that's what we see and that's why we love you all .
;D

a reply to: boymonkey74

Of course the Aussies are the naughty ones.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
What happened during the Falkland war btw? did the Americans do anything to help either side?...never really thought of the question?.

Yes, the American supplied sidewinders, intel, plus other...

In its darkest hour, the battle of Britain, the then American ambassador, surname Kennedy, told the American president that Britain was 'finished', so obviously there's no point in throwing good money after bad...

a reply to: Jonjonj

If there is to be a war in Europe, at this point it is most likely to be Western Europe and the non-Russian Eastern European countries VS Russia.

Now, I could be wrong, but Russia is closer (distance) to the USA than Western Europe, it would be a major security concern for them.

The UK would be heavily involved, which would probably draw in the commonwealth countries.

Yes, it took them (USA) a while to get involved in WWII, and yes it annoys me that some US people seem to think we (UK) would have lost WWII without their involvement, it would have gone on longer with more lives lost, but we already had the war in Europe pretty much won at that point and were on the offensive......but they still came, they helped speed up the victory and no doubt saved many lives....and that's not even mentioning the financial and welfare aid they provided prior to them fighting.

If war starts in Europe, the UK and the USA will be at the front fighting alongside each other, 50p bet on that.

a reply to: Jonjonj

WWII. Not until the Japanese actually bombed Pearl Harbour did they deem to help their closest and best ally. Their richest families did help the Germans AND the British though, with finance. Not a word about the German expansion pre-Poland.

Actually, the US was shipping war materials and pilots to Britain for years before Pearl. In fact, many people think FDR "let" Pearl happen because he could not formally enter the war without the people on his side, and a Japanese sneak attack gave him just that. Only ten percent of Americans were in favor of entering the war before Pearl, after Pearl happened there was 90 percent in favor of entering the war. Just the fact that he ordered the entire Pacific fleet there (minus the aircraft carriers of course) effectively putting all of his eggs in one basket, and then fired his top Admiral for speaking out against it is a red flag for me.

I think the US used to be great, used to stand for noble ideals and such, but not anymore. Now it stands for whatever the money tells it to stand for.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What "Isolationism"?
For much of it's history, the USA has been fighting wars of their own making overseas, for corporate profit. Hardly isolationism, by any stretch of the imagination.

I think there is a growing feeling across Europe that the US doesn't give a damn about Europeans and what is best for us, which is of course absolutely true. As a result, I hope the calls for distancing ourselves from the US, and also closing their military bases in our countries will become a policy. We don't need them and, despite all the fabricated "Russian Aggression" BS we are bombarded with, the simple fact is that the current problems wouldn't exist if it were not for the US and their bought, bribed or blackmailed vassals in Europe selling out their own people.

As for the UK, we don't need American bases, troops or aircraft here, and they are not stationed here to protect us, but as a simple launch point for US instigated aggression elsewhere, which of course also makes us complicit and a target for any blowback.

a reply to: woogleuk

I actually disagree if the US didn't enter the war eventually Germany would have Won. The British had a major problem they couldn't produce the food or materials needed. But I'll say take out any of the three US, Britain or Russia and the Nazis won. But let's for arguments sake say the brutish were able to hold out. That means stalins forces would have taken most if Europe. Not like the French would have stopped them just kidding. So imagine what the soviets would have had and think we're that would have gone.