I Believe in Religion

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Well that's the one of the major problems with a structure like organized religion especially in a corporate age. When we look around just about everything around us is telling us what we should think whether it be religion, politics, media. It's all the same. We're coming to, if not already at, a point where people would rather be told what to think than think for themselves and honestly it's just sad.

originally posted by: Enlil2215
When we look around just about everything around us is telling us what we should think whether it be religion, politics, media. It's all the same. We're coming to, if not already at, a point where people would rather be told what to think than think for themselves and honestly it's just sad.

It's called a culture and it's been a part of the human reality for ages. You can let children discover the whole world by themselves, but usually they will learn much faster if you provide some guidelines. That's where cultures come into play.

You can find it sad, it's still one of the reasons why human societies evolved so quickly lately.

It's not because I was told as a kid that the earth was round that I'm not encouraged to think for myself. I don't really see the connections you make here. Actually critical thinking is SUPPOSED to be a part of the western cultures education systems. If some kids are too lazy to be critical it's unfair to blame the culture. Not everyone is born to be a bright mind.

a reply to: DAZ21

i do believe that the bible holds the truth but it's not a book on how to get to a place in the sky and live happily ever

But if you look at it from a philosophical point of view it is truly an amazing guide to understanding. The only problem is that it's coded in stories and metaphor, and i believe that's one of the reasons religion was able to be so corrupted.

I mean let's face it people nowadays love being told what to think, and if they're being told that "this" is the only "true" way to interpret the message then they're not gunna question it. Especially after it's been beaten into your head for a long period of time.

a reply to: JUhrman

But see you just stated One of the obvious problems Yoursel. The fact that as a culture we would hold onto ideals that not only proved destructive in the past but cause fighting among people still to this day when they were meant to support love among them isnt just sad but lazy as well.

It's basically stating that ya this isn't working but we'll keep it the same anywaY. Yes a cultural shift would be hard. But when has trying to do something for the betterment of humanity ever been easy? I mean god jesus died on the cross because he expressed views that weren't culturally accepte. Why would or even should it be any easier for us.

originally posted by: Enlil2215
a reply to: JUhrman

But see you just stated One of the obvious problems Yoursel. The fact that as a culture we would hold onto ideals that not only proved destructive in the past but cause fighting among people still to this day when they were meant to support love among them isnt just sad but lazy as well.

It's basically stating that ya this isn't working but we'll keep it the same anywaY. Yes a cultural shift would be hard. But when has trying to do something for the betterment of humanity ever been easy? I mean god jesus died on the cross because he expressed views that weren't culturally accepte. Why would or even should it be any easier for us.

You have to be more precise because I have no idea what "ideals" nor "culture" you are talking about. Are you talking about the US? Are you talking about Christian fundamentalism?

I don't see where in the modern western cultures there is an ideal promoting fighting.

Could you develop please?

There is almost no Christian fundamentalism in Europe, and our countries are mostly laic. Children don't have to pledge allegiance under god, politicians don't have to make oaths on the bible, and the Bible is not taught literally so really what you talk about is not familiar to me.

a reply to: JUhrman

Well to be honest U.S.culture and Christian fundamentalism. But for the sake of staying on topic Christian fundamentalism. And to be clear i never said it promoted fighting but the opposite. It just turns into a fight in most cases.

But just so i don't go on a tangent what exactly were you wanting me to develop on?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

These belief systems seem to function in a myriad of ways: as a standard people may live by, or to ease the suffering of groundlessness for those not light enough to float on their own thoughts, as a moral code, as a template for thinking, or in countless more evolutionary, biological and psychological aspects. In other words, there is no one function or purpose to it.

True. Religion and myth serve many functions. Among them: cosmological, social, psychological, and mystical.

But if you want to really understand religion, you have to live a life that is actually served by these functions. You have to feel that your religion shows you the shape of the universe, but in such a way that the mystery still comes through. The cosmology should correspond to the actual experience, knowledge, and mentality of the culture. This interpretive function changes radically over time.

You have to feel that your religion supports and validates the specific moral order of the society you live in. The social function, and the rites by which it is rendered, establishes in members of the group a system of sentiments that can be depended upon to connect people.

Your religion must show you how to live a human lifetime under any circumstances. It is this pedagogical function of religion and myth that carries the individual through the various stages and crises of life, from childhood dependency, to the responsibilities of maturity, to the reflection of old age, and finally, to death. It helps people grasp the unfolding of life with integrity. It initiates individuals into the order of realities in their own psyches, guiding them toward enrichment and realization.

And finally the metaphysical function. Your religion must awaken and support a sense of awe before the mystery of being. It must reconcile consciousness to the preconditions of its own existence. It must induce a realization that behind the surface phenomenology of the world, there is a transcendent mystery source. Through this vitalizing mystical function, the universe becomes a holy picture.

LesMis, what shows you the shape of the universe? What connects you to people? What carries you through the stages and crisises of your life? What awakens and supports a sense of awe in you?

I really want to know.

👣

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I used to be religious for 20 years as a Chirstian.

Not anymore.

Believe me, I did everything I could to hang on to it. But at the end of the day, it's about men trying to make sense of which they could not have understood thousands of years ago...

...And about modern men trying to make sense of teachings of men who barely understood the laws of the universe or nature.


I still believe in Christ but Christ is actually saying to run away as far as possible from religion! THe false apostle Paul undermined all that Christ died for and tranformed a revolution into a religion!

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
About religion...what is there to not believe in? and to spend precious time not believing in it? A book? A fable? A lullaby? The stories of men?

Oh, you!

Atheism doesn't mean not believing in religion. Religion exists. It's a FACT. To not believe in it would be ridiculous, like not believing in cars.

Well, if only there was a god to not believe in, I might understand your irony.

If there was a god to not believe in, then there would be a god.

I'm always amused by your anti-atheist threads, especially since you're an ath.... er... I mean, you don't believe in a god, either.

a reply to: johndeere2020

You really aren't giving any credit to our ancestors basic universal laws? Of course they knew universal laws what do you think hermetics is or even the laws in the bible they all follow universal law

originally posted by: Enlil2215
a reply to: JUhrman

Well to be honest U.S.culture and Christian fundamentalism. But for the sake of staying on topic Christian fundamentalism. And to be clear i never said it promoted fighting but the opposite. It just turns into a fight in most cases.

But just so i don't go on a tangent what exactly were you wanting me to develop on?

I couldn't understand what you meant by this:

But see you just stated One of the obvious problems Yoursel. The fact that as a culture we would hold onto ideals that not only proved destructive in the past but cause fighting among people still to this day

If you were saying Christian fundamentalism is hardly a culture that should be encouraged in the US society, I 100% agree with you.

I don't consider religious fundamentalism to be representative of religions though. There is nothing inherently wrong in religions and it's something many American atheists have a hard time accepting because to them religions are seen mostly through the lens of Christian and Islamic fundamentalism. And thus they generalize fundamentalism to religions. It is as correct as saying that all atheists are positive explicit atheists.

Most criticisms made by them against religions are actually only criticisms against fundamentalism. And fundamentalism is more of a superstition and less of a religion. A "true" religion is the social expression of an internal and personal experience. It cannot be reduced to a dogma.

a reply to: BlueMule

LesMis, what shows you the shape of the universe? What connects you to people? What carries you through the stages and crisises of your life? What awakens and supports a sense of awe in you?

I really want to know.

Nothing shows me the shape of the universe.

The word "connection" is too confusing. I have relationships with people, and it varies by matter of proximity, interaction, biology and language.

I have always ended up carrying my own burdens.

Living life to the fullest has so far been the most supportive method of inspiration.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Atheism doesn't mean not believing in religion. Religion exists. It's a FACT. To not believe in it would be ridiculous, like not believing in cars.

I never said it did. I'm only curious as to what part of religion atheists do not believe in.

If there was a god to not believe in, then there would be a god.

Yes, there is not a god to lack belief in. If so, then what do you lack belief in? The book? The promises of priests? This is what I cannot understand.

a reply to: johndeere2020

Believe me, I did everything I could to hang on to it. But at the end of the day, it's about men trying to make sense of which they could not have understood thousands of years ago...

We do the exact same today.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

They call the Bible the living word, it is if it is read and studied like it should be;

Did that...then investigating it further, found it to be the Old Roman empire resurrected - May as well call jehovah - Jove or Jupiter.

a reply to: Connell

We were on the right path for a while, but humanity is basically regressing,

You mean the Hebrews had it right? Conquering every tribe they came across and then keeping the virgins? Gods chosen people? yeah right.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You had me going for a second when I read the title, I thought the world had turned upside down...

:wipes forehead:

Thank God all is normal after all!

hahaha... You brought up very good points, ones I agree with concerning the behavior of many who claim to be atheist. I think we can easily all get along just fine.. it seems more a matter of deciding to want to get along, than being unable to.

a reply to: JUhrman

non-religious person who claim there is no such thing as global warming.

Both can become a nuisance to society when their beliefs can do more harm than good.

I apologize that I am spiritual and have studied global warming and can see it akin to how the trinity evolved from a monotheistic christianity. But you wouldnt understand because your physicist deacon relative didn't instill enough curiosity in you. BTW its not a "belief" when you reach an understanding and see the economic reasons and dubious science behind global warming.

a reply to: christophoros

even the laws in the bible they all follow universal law

What like not eating pork or not wearing certain fabrics - you call those universal laws?

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
BTW its not a "belief" when you reach an understanding and see the economic reasons and dubious science behind global warming.

I'm sorry you can't make the difference between "global warming" and "man-made global warming". All I'm saying is "anyone claiming there is no global warming is simply ignoring facts".

More than 90% of all weather scientists all agree there is a global warming tendency but please tell me more about how they are wrong in you know better, and keep assuming I lack curiosity

It's not because there is no consensus on what is causing it, that it doesn't exist. The economic reasons behind doubting this reality comes from the oil industry. Look no further. They even use the same strategy cigarette makers used to make people doubt cigarette cause cancers.