I'm starting an off-grid comunity.

This is similar to my goal (that I am still a long way off achieving). My aqua-culture produce would be Barramundi, blue-lip mussels and maron. My mother breeds barramundi in an old swimming pool so I know how to keep them. Blue-lips arnt really a good selling product but they are filter feeders and this helps with the others. Maron (fresh-water crayfish) are not as easy to keep becasue they are cannibals and they will eat eachother.

I didnt plan on connecting my aqua-culture up with my planned hydroponics. I have years of experience growing hydroponics both indoor with lights and outdoor with just the sun as a light source and I've built my own set-ups before so I have a good little plan for a commercial hydroponic vegetable business.

Goats!. I need milk for my coffee and tea, and I dont mind goats milk. Goats are easier to keep than cows, and they will eat most things so you dont need to buy feed for them. The downside to goats is they eat anything and so you have to move them around or they will eat everything in that paddock including the fence.

Gees, hens, phesant kept for meat, not commercially.

Organic hops and barley as I know some miro-brewers and this will give me the ability to trade for beer.

Fruit trees of apple, plumb, and depending on where maybe cherries if a place down south that gets the cold or mangos if I go north where its warmer. There will take years to establish before they bear fruit so I will aim to get these in the ground before even putting up any fencing or sheds.

Olives, as they dont use much water and after they are established they will be a source of oil. I have no idea how to turn olive oil into a bio-fuel but I doubt I would be able to produce enough to use it as a viable fuel source.

Being in sunny Australia (its not sunny here today tho) I will take advantage of solar and aim to have all sheds and buildings covered in panels. Two or 3 wind turbines would be built to suppliment the solar, I have done my research and I'm confident putting these together.

Gas or an alternative cooking/heating fuel is where I'm kind of at a loss for a viable solution. Most rural properties here (even some suburban ones) rely on bottled gas and this really does not suit what I want. I know there are ways of producing methane from bio-waste but I dont want something too complicated or something that wont produce enough to use viably. The alternative is electric cooking and heating, but that will put a significant dent in my electricity. Cooking/heating with wood is probably out of the question in that there isnt much forest left as is...

Communications: this all depends on how much I want to actually interact with the outside world. I already have a wireless 4G broadband dongle that I could connect to the net in most places, and I dont watch TV so I could just buy a CB/UHF set-up and that be it. If I did want to set up a TV then I would need to go a dish for real TV or really big areal for the rural stations, both are not cheap so I would only outlay that cost if I were planning on having guests.

Firearms is tricky being in Australia, but I could probably get a licence for a shotgun or 22LR--I only need a small varmant rifle for pests and not something to drop water buffalo.

Alcohol: I will have vines, I know how to make wine, I have been doing it since I was a kid.

Cigarettes: its illegal to grow tobacco here so I will have to either quit or grow "bush tobacco" (no I dont mean pot) which is a native shrub than can be chewed or smoked. It tastes like crap (its distantly related to lavender) but it has a tiny bit of nicotine content from what Im told??.

Medication: I can stock up to two years of my meds with no worry, but beyond that I will need civilisation if I want to keep my meds.

Honestly, other than a supply of gas or alternative fuel I think I could do it. I just need the land and thats my "retirement" planned.

With the fish in the aquaponics system, i put a light buld 3-4 inches above the water to attract all the bugs for the fish to eat.
Also growing duck weed and a maggot bin to grow maggots. a reply to: Ghost147

originally posted by: StoutBroux
Most people have too high of expectations for off grid living, as in trying to live off grid with the same mentality and "stuff" as on grid. In all my reading, I've learned that bigger isn't better, at least with the living areas. Smaller houses are easier to keep warm, cool, clean etc. Since all will be done by hand without modern conveniences, best to keep it simple and small. A good solid A frame will stay toasty in the winter and with proper positioning and vents, cool in the summer. You should pay attention to your weather and environment in order to use what nature supplies you instead of trying to make nature bend to your needs.

Curious, are you going to try the compost toilet system, using moss or substrate to avoid having an outhouse? I'm seriously considering building a small hut with this, off grid about 500 from my house just to see how it goes.

Cool idea and hope it all goes well.

I understand your concerns, but one of the factors that we want to focus on within this idea is showing that you don't need to substitute quality of life and still maintain an off-grid style of living. We have considered the compost system as an option for us to recycle human waist, but are still in the midst of our research in this matter.


a reply to: ItVibrates
Sounds like you're at a similar stage of planning as we are. Although due to our climate and seasonal differences you and I have, there's a lot of interesting conflicts between both of our plans. For instance the wood issue you'll have, for us we have an overabundance. However, unless we manually gauge the temperature of our water, we won't be able to produce the same species of fish that you can.

originally posted by: Alchemst7
With the fish in the aquaponics system, i put a light buld 3-4 inches above the water to attract all the bugs for the fish to eat.
Also growing duck weed and a maggot bin to grow maggots. a reply to: Ghost147

That's an interesting idea, I may have to adopt it!

a reply to: Ghost147
Ha, my plan is still in the dream stages, its a long way of fruition. Yeah the climate is almost the opposite from here to there, but WA does have cooler regions down south. One thing I did discover with Barramundi is that you can farm it in colder water than it will live in the wild but not THAT much colder, I dont have info on hand ATM.

Cherries are a cold climate crop and I chose them if I go further south because they yeld per acre, once established it is enough to get a decent income from. As far as cool climate grape varieties, the ones that are grown more often in the Great Southern region are Pinot grapes--do you enjoy a nice Pinot Noir? maybe plant a vine or two (especially if limestony soils--Pinot loves that!).

One thing I forgot to mention was Bees!. I have kept bees before but not a licensed apiary, the plan is to have some hives and be self sufficient for honey too.

Have you worked out what sort of machinery you will need? This is an area I cant find a sustainable alternative. I found out that some heavy equipment is cheaper to buy second-hand than to hire tho. Plus the cost of transporting it back and fourth. I know what I need for my farm, both to run it and build it and I will still need to buy diesel to keep the place running--there is no self sufficiency in that regard. A plug-in electric fork-lift might reduce some diesel use, but it will take more from my electricity. As far as I know there are no plug-in electric skid-steers, excavators or tractors but maybe by the time I am in a position to buy land they will be on the market? No Im not going to buy a Clydesdale.

One possibility I saw for smaller machines was the compressed air engines, this engine was fitted to a smaller stock picker, but I want to see it on a full size fork-lift. There are a number of applications this tech might be useful on a farm (especially an off the grid one) but it wont replace diesel just yet.
www.engineair.com.au...

a reply to: ItVibrates

Well, we were contemplating using that Compost-Water-Heating method I mentioned in the first post to either feed the Aquaponics system, or use low wattage electrical heating sources that would run from our solar panels as another alternative. That way we have the ability to grow everything from cold water fish to warm water fish.

In all likelihood, we'll have a number of different systems set up to see which is A) most profitable and B) produces the largest yield, before we finalize exactly what we want to focus on.

I have had Pinot Noir! We're trying to figure out just what kind of vegetation would do best in our area. Fortunately, because one of our members' family are fish farmers already, we have quite the insider for the fish market.

Our provinces have an abundance of used farming machinery, and it's what we would also be purchasing for the community. Actually, we were also looking at China-made stuff (anything really, not just machinery) to ship over that would otherwise cost quite a lot more if we were to purchase it locally (such as glass, building materials, etc.)

Awesome...it is good to see this kind of activity from anybody and is especially powerful as a presentation to the ATS community. I look forward to seeing your updates and I wish you both fortune and resilience. I personally believe many aspects of what you are doing will be much more commonplace in the future as humans endeavor to create more stable, wieldy communities.

I have similar plans but will be attempting them in a zone 7 so most of the information I've gathered is tailored to that climate. For your climate I would suggest the work of Sepp Holzer (Austria), or Paul Wheaton (Montana) as good sources of information and strategies for off-grid living. I notice you mentioned compost heat for your home but, unless I missed it, I didn't see any mention of a rocket mass heater. If you are unaware of this device, have a good look online or through Paul Wheaton's website Permies.com. It is essentially, a relatively low-tech, super powered wood stove that uses a venturi effect to increase oxygen and generate a hotter burn. This results in cleaner exhaust that is channeled slowly through stone which absorbs the heat and gives it off slowly throughout the day. Very efficient for heating in colder climates.

Btw, the taxman works for us as long as we need him to.

a reply to: Ghost147

Ive looked at new imports from China, however I did notice I could also import used from Japan economically too--especially trucks, here used trucks hold their value and I will need a dedicated fridge truck dealing with fish. Plus a flatbed for general use.

Here there is a need to annually clear fire-brakes, and this cant be done by hand, I would assume similar measures would be required there?--check your municipal counsel for the regulations. Some counsels here will clear fire-brakes for you but others wont and this adds a huge cost to a property if you are still establishing and yet to draw an income from it. I would volunteer for the local bush firefighters (done it before) to not only get involved with the community but also cut costs in clearing fire-brakes. There must be some similar system there you can get involved with?.

Anyway, I could go on about my retirement dream ad infinitum. I'll stop being a troll now. Good to hear from others who are actually putting there dreams into reality tho

a reply to: SlickMcFavorite

Thanks for the support! I had not heard of a Rocket Mass Heater before, but from how you describe it, it makes perfect sense. We were going to supply each building with a wood burning stove as an additional backup system. I'll have to take a closer look at the Rocket Mass Heater concept, thanks for bringing it up.

a reply to: ItVibrates

Haha, no need to apologize, you've already inspired some contemplation from your words. I'm unfamiliar with any regulations regarding clearing firebreaks, but we were already planning on doing so annually anyway. I'll have to do some more research in regards to that.

Just to add, and I know its not an academic article with the info you need, but this gives a nice little summation of why Barramundi is a more viable fish for farming. I really think if you can farm them there it will have a nice niche market that could be a good ROI.
www.theatlantic.com...

It's something I've been interested in for a few years now but will in all honesty probably won't do anything about it. I live in England and trying to convince my wife that living like this is better, cheaper and more fun than what we currently do now, would be difficult. I did see an article recently about shipping containers being used as houses. Looked really nice and were a LOT cheaper than normal build costs.

a reply to: Ghost147

Yes...alternatively, you could just pack your job in and find a healthier, albeit less well-paid one?

Or even go on welfare?

If you could survive in the Great Outdoors on nowt, you could do even better in Civvy Street with a few less dollars in your sky.

Seems a bit drastic is what I'm thinking; and if you are of a certain age and have never actually done it...perhaps not a great idea to start now?

originally posted by: CJCrawley
a reply to: Ghost147

Yes...alternatively, you could just pack your job in and find a healthier, albeit less well-paid one?

Or even go on welfare?

If you could survive in the Great Outdoors on nowt, you could do even better in Civvy Street with a few less dollars in your sky.

Seems a bit drastic is what I'm thinking; and if you are of a certain age and have never actually done it...perhaps not a great idea to start now?

It seems to me that this is a life's challenge worth taking and, beside, if it fails one could always collect welfare as a Plan B.

I will keep this short, but make sure you have a lawyer on retainer, find a way to receive and read your mail, and learn how to build things to code. You will be hounded for permits and taxes for as long as you own the land. There is NO WAY around it and I have seen many Neo-Pioneers loose it all because they thought they could ignore local government Code Enforcement and ignore court summons.

In fact, it would be best to make sure you at least serve on local government committees or get into an elected city council position in the jurisdiction where you property is located.

I disagree with other opinions here, cooperating with non-relatives, buying land and slowly things building up is the easy part. The hard part is having enough money in the bank to keep your dream "Legal" with local government.

I've always wanted to do something like this as well. My younger brother have beat me to it tho as they built a little cabin and set up a solar power system to suit them for there needs. As times progressed they now have a little garden started and goats. They are just buried into land they purchased but not far from a small little town where they take there kid for school and socializing. I already told them that when their goats have kids we will have to adopt one or two and move out there with them. But this community your mentioning is sounding fairly awesome and I may have to consider joining. As I am over in Alberta and could provide handy hands and a mind. Being able to grow veggies and brew beer. Did I mention I'm good with my hands and able to learn quickly and repair a lot of things in a wide variety like mechanically to technically. Most definitely interested in hearing more about this.

This is a great thread and it's so awesome you are putting so much plan into this. That will definitely be the determining factor whether you are successful or not.

My advice, if you have not already seen it, is to watch the hour documentary called Surviving Alone in Alaska. Their means of survival is a little different from yours (no farming or aquaponics), but the ideas are still the same.

This couple has lived alone for their entire marriage in the northern reaches of Alaska and they are extremely happy.

Link to video

I've got a 5 year plan myself (on year 2 of this). (this isn't all inclusive though, as off the top of my head)

Currently, I've already got a well and septic, so off the grid for water, except for the electricity for the well pump.
We already have some fruit trees/bushes growing.
We already have horses.
We already keep both chickens and rabbits.
We already have BOBs in the vehicles
We already have a bit of land (5 and a half acres), that is heavily fenced and gated, and not in city limits.
We already have a variety of non-powered tools, implements
We already have firearms, ammo, and numerous knives, machetes, swords, etc. (mostly as we collect these, though some are more for decor than fighting, many are combat capable)
We already have security outer doors, and anti-kick measures, power independent alarm, and dogs, as well as motion sensor lighting.
We already compost for fertilizer
We already have backup lighting options (candles, oil lamps)
We already have backup cooking methods (gas grill, charcoal grill, fireplace, wood)

This year (2) (mostly planting):

1) Planting a medicinal/herb garden with Koi pond in our atrium area, in the spring (next month).
2) Planting some fruit trees this summer, and winter (timing depends on type of tree). Looking to do some apple trees, orange, lemon, lime, avocado, pear
3) Planting a veggie garden in the fall (September)
4) Planting different berry bushes around the house and yard (not pasture)
5) Backup manual well pump
6) Stockpiling medical and cleaning supplies (part of the plan this year is to sell a lot of junk and clear out space too)
7) Replace bedroom doors/locks with exterior quality (so each bedroom can be a saferoom)
8) Faraday Cage tool and gadget cabinets in the garage (for power tools, flashlights, emergency radios, spare electronics, etc.)

Next year (3):

1) Pool in the spring/summer (mostly for fun, but added bonus of water storage)
2) Getting some goats (still researching about them, especially to see how many, and where I want to create more paddocks in the pastures).
3) Diesel backup generator (for well pump)
4) More water storage barrels (in different locations to be convenient)
5) More rain catchment barrels (for garden areas)
6) Home canning of veggies from garden (this year and going forward, of course)
7) 8 Camera system
8) Better driveway alarm

Following year (4):

1) Building concrete firing positions/planters (pre SHTF, they will just be planters)
2) Vehicle stopping posts along front fence (even pre SHTF, these are a good idea)
3) Stockpiling building supplies (this is always an "as I can" thing, but should have more room during this year)
4) Bulletproof vests and helmets for the family (this will actually likely be over the course of two years, as a big expense, even getting them second hand).
5) Build an outhouse by the main stable
6) Solar powered well pump (solely)
7) Solar powered charging station (in the garage, for rechargeable power tools, and other things post SHTF, like radios, etc.)

Final year

1) Whole house backup generator system, with propane tank (likely after refinancing)
2) Fence improvements (though some sooner)
3) Security rated glass doors on back porch (if not sooner)
4) Should be able to can some fruit by then


There are other items I'm forgetting, I'm sure, but I think it's pretty comprehensive.
Basically, we're trying to prep for anything that might cause a disruption in our lives, whether as mundane as getting laid off, or as radical as a nuclear war. The basic theme is increasing our self sufficiency, so that if society breaks down, we'll still have power, light, food, water, etc.

And if everything stays fine, well, we'll still spend less on groceries, and eat healthier, safer food, and be fine for minor power outages, etc. In addition to the family, a few select friends know our plans too, and of course, they'd be coming if things went south. (Strength in numbers). Not on a year plan, but if something happened, we'd convert some stable stalls to bedrooms.

Good luck.
I envy you.

Inspired by how well thought out and elaborate this is, three guys become friends and BAM, you got yourself a get away dream come true

Seriously though, as boo above stated, year round this property of yours, will be hounded financial and legal.

What sounds like a good idea, which funneles into an elaborate blueprint, is not always as sexy when your living it day after day..

It's like our jobs; we get bored, naturally, and stressed doing the same # over and over . . We need a vacation have a good time, and we come back to the same job with a new attitude.

You will have nothing to go back to, and if forced to retreat the dream life, will be forced to start "life" over again. Everyone involved.

It's wise you are taking your time and looking at it from all angles. What you have shared so far is very interesting and much more detailed then anything I have thought of!

It's very important to build relationships with each other, you will only depend on eachother when you make this transition, TRUST will be more important then fish farms and construction. .

Thanks for sharing something which you ainvolved in! I wish you all the very best, prosperity and balance to your group.

This is something I would love to be apart of, but currently am not prepared too. I don't think anything "big" is going to happen, yet, give a few more years.

I still have time to save money and buy resources equipment, materials, food and water supplies / systems.. etc.. We are use to the globalists always pump faking throughout time to keep humanity on their heels... look at at current media.

They don't have the balls to pull WW3 yet, we aren't scared and dumb enough, some of us at least

I'm in western canada too, and have thought of starting a group for such an epic endeavour. Collectively building off grid communities.. if such communities would manifest it would be wise to connect with each other across geography.

British Columbia, I feel might be an.. unbalanced place to start a settlement. Rising sea levels, detected radiation off coast of BC (Fukushima?).
And there are too many crazy people, and too much crazy wildlife!

Anyways I've drifted a little hehe.. U2U me anytime Ghost, we can converse a little further if your interested..

Goodluck to all of you, bless your wild endeavor

OP,
Marvelous post! My bestie and I have the same ideas in mind.

I do have a question for you on housing. Have you thought about cob or straw-bale? It is literally next-to-nothing as far as cost goes. And there are a multitude of benefits from that type of building. It can be as "pretty" or as plain as you want it - and if built correctly, it will maintain a steady temperature as opposed to fluctuating. There are also different types of flooring using recycled materials like old tires. There is SO much information on this type of building that I'm only throwing some of the best benefits out there for a taste.

“A mud house with walls 2 ft (0.6 m) thick, a well-insulated roof, and minimum-heat-gain doors and windows would have an indoor temperature range varying no more than about 6° – 8° F (3.3° – 4.4° C) year-round in most of the USA without central heating and air conditioning!”
- Glorious Mud, Gus W. Van Beek

Where you are planning to build would work. It takes time, but in the end it is worth it for a multitude of reasons. If you have not, I would encourage research on it.

Here are a couple of links for you if you are interested.
buildnaturally.blogspot.com...
www.nbne.org...

originally posted by: ItVibrates
Just to add, and I know its not an academic article with the info you need, but this gives a nice little summation of why Barramundi is a more viable fish for farming. I really think if you can farm them there it will have a nice niche market that could be a good ROI.
www.theatlantic.com...

When I was researching Aquaponics systems and the possible fish species, Barramundi came up as one of the best. If we can teak the system with our power grid then it is definitely a contender. It'll be one of those things where we have to test the market out before mass production. But, I love to research things! I'll definitely read through that article.

originally posted by: High5Ghost
It's something I've been interested in for a few years now but will in all honesty probably won't do anything about it. I live in England and trying to convince my wife that living like this is better, cheaper and more fun than what we currently do now, would be difficult. I did see an article recently about shipping containers being used as houses. Looked really nice and were a LOT cheaper than normal build costs.

I would imagine the UK in general would be a tough place to achieve this. I did also see those shipping container houses as well, although we found an even less expensive way to build a larger house with the same quality as those shipping containers. Once we start all the building projects, we plan on documenting the entire thing with immense detail. So in a year or so we should have enough information for the first documented video. I'll be sure to release everything here on ATS when it becomes available.

originally posted by: CJCrawley
a reply to: Ghost147

Yes...alternatively, you could just pack your job in and find a healthier, albeit less well-paid one?

Or even go on welfare?

If you could survive in the Great Outdoors on nowt, you could do even better in Civvy Street with a few less dollars in your sky.

Seems a bit drastic is what I'm thinking; and if you are of a certain age and have never actually done it...perhaps not a great idea to start now?

Absolutely true. However, It's not merely the job that distresses us; it's society in general. The other two don't have as much of an issue as I do, but I live in the quickest growing city in Canada. I currently live in a 1980's house that's 700 sq/feet which has never been renovated. It costs us $250,000 two years ago, which if you look almost anywhere else in Canada is between $90,000 to $150,000 in an equivalent house. The bills are no less inflated it seems, and frankly, we're just sick of it.

We've always been nature people, and living without all the amenities that we currently have is not an issue. However, one of our focus' in this project is education. If we can successfully pull this off, living virtually free, in a modern setting, free of capitalism, greed, and so forth, we want to be able to show how we achieved this so that others can follow suit.

originally posted by: boohoo
I will keep this short, but make sure you have a lawyer on retainer, find a way to receive and read your mail, and learn how to build things to code. You will be hounded for permits and taxes for as long as you own the land. There is NO WAY around it and I have seen many Neo-Pioneers loose it all because they thought they could ignore local government Code Enforcement and ignore court summons.

In fact, it would be best to make sure you at least serve on local government committees or get into an elected city council position in the jurisdiction where you property is located.

I disagree with other opinions here, cooperating with non-relatives, buying land and slowly things building up is the easy part. The hard part is having enough money in the bank to keep your dream "Legal" with local government.

Thanks for the warning, and we've taken a great deal of thought on this very issue.

Currently, the way we are going to try to get around this is by purchasing the lot for subdivision. We can't move multiple families onto one lot for legal issues, and we understand that. We'll still be paying property taxes and abiding by all other government regulations. They will know that we are there and that's not an issue for us. We're not aiming to make it an off-grid site with the focus of complete disappearance (I know that's not what you're suggesting, but others have mentioned it).

All buildings will be built to code, and with that in mind the cost will go up slightly. Nevertheless, we're planning for it. The property would either be purchased by a trustee, who would then sell the subdivided lots to each new family that joins. The lots would be essentially free, being sold at a dollar each, or whatever the lowest amount we can legally sell it for. Or, we form a company and purchase the land under it, and research the ways it would legal for us to use it as company property.

The only issue with the company bit is that if the company ever declares bankruptcy, everything is lost.

originally posted by: KuzKuz
I've always wanted to do something like this as well. My younger brother have beat me to it tho as they built a little cabin and set up a solar power system to suit them for there needs. As times progressed they now have a little garden started and goats. They are just buried into land they purchased but not far from a small little town where they take there kid for school and socializing. I already told them that when their goats have kids we will have to adopt one or two and move out there with them. But this community your mentioning is sounding fairly awesome and I may have to consider joining. As I am over in Alberta and could provide handy hands and a mind. Being able to grow veggies and brew beer. Did I mention I'm good with my hands and able to learn quickly and repair a lot of things in a wide variety like mechanically to technically. Most definitely interested in hearing more about this.

What a coincidence! I am from Alberta as well. Initially we were only going to found this with the three of us, and build up the community from there, but It could very well be easier to start with more help. ATS is the main forum i'll be releasing information to, and if it abides by the rules, i would love to start a sort of "recruitment" thread.

The thing is, it would be extremely rigorous. A lot of livelihoods are at stake with this project, and failure is simply not tolerable.

I haven't been able to share all the details about the project, yet. However, we've devised a thorough business plan, building plan, some sources for building materials, and basic total costs. It will be in another thread that is more fixated on the projects details, rather than a more generic post such as this. Once you read through that, it'll be more likely that we are looking for additional participants.