Atheists and Agnostics don't believe in God but want spread their nothing word

a reply to: BlueMule

I don't see your point. I don't even know who Sam Harris is so, if I fit into the atheist-on-the-street category, then there is one reason.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: BlueMule

I don't see your point. I don't even know who Sam Harris is so, if I fit into the atheist-on-the-street category, then there is one reason.

Ok, sorry if I'm not making my point clear.

Both atheists and religious fundamentalists are taking the wrong approach to world religion and myth. They need to meet in the middle, because both are half-wrong.

👣

originally posted by: BlueMule
Ok, sorry if I'm not making my point clear.

Both atheists and religious fundamentalists are taking the wrong approach to world religion and myth. They need to meet in the middle, because both are half-wrong.

A quick search and I see that Sam Harris is a proponant of new atheism which wiki describes as:

New Atheism is a social and political movement in favour of atheism and secularism promoted by a collection of modern atheist writers who have advocated the view that "religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises."

Doesn't sound like someone who wants to meet in the middle.

Now, why would you identify a part of the religious population (the fundamentalists) but don't seem to recognize that atheists can also be further divided?

The term popped up earlier in the thread, and it seems to me that the middle ground that you seem to think holds the answers, is where the spiritual atheists are at.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: BlueMule

I don't see your point. I don't even know who Sam Harris is so, if I fit into the atheist-on-the-street category, then there is one reason.

I don't know who Sam Harris is either. The only reason I know who Richard Dawkins is -- is because I read something on ATS.

I don't follow other atheists.

I was raised Christian. It is my search, research of religion that resulted in me being atheist

But honestly, why should I meet anyone in the middle on these issues?

My understanding of the world is my own. I absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt KNOW that the world would be a better place without religion, but, we can't just take it away. I know first hand that it has to die its own death.

On the other hand, when the religious start trying to get themselves elevated above the laws of the land, or to crush me underneath inequitable laws ... danged right I'll fight.

When I see sheer abuse to reason being promoted as "religious freedom", I'll certainly stand up and fight for the reasonable and rational, for science over superstition.

As we've seen here in this small microcosm of the world (ATS) the religious love to dish it out, but they can't take it.

I'm in favor of cohabitation in the world. I have to see churches at virtually every corner. I have to see billboards glorifying belief over understanding. And god forbid I actually confront any of these "spread the love around" cretins with facts and reason.

You see their mettle PDQ. All that "love" is about a millimeter thick.

But I digress.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
But honestly, why should I meet anyone in the middle on these issues?

I agree but BM said something about reaching our potential as a species.

Yeah, I'm not sure what that means either.

How did I allow myself to become involved in this thread?

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Gryphon66
But honestly, why should I meet anyone in the middle on these issues?

I agree but BM said something about reaching our potential as a species.

Yeah, I'm not sure what that means either.

This discussion is the first time I've seen some of us try to explain in reasonable, straightforward terms why we are atheists, spiritual atheists, agnostics, non-theists, anti-theists, whatever.

And what do we get in return?

We've found out that we can't define ourselves as we understand ourselves, that we are just ignorant, deluded or even stupid, that we just haven't given enough study or consideration to the "real" truth about gods and God and so forth ...

So, no ... I don't find myself overly disposed to meet anyone "halfway" because that's like saying "sure, I'll swallow a little bit of that strychnine, so long as you say it's going to be okay."

IMHO, YMMV

originally posted by: InTheLight
How did I allow myself to become involved in this thread?

You wanted to honestly try to relate to others who pretended to want an honest and open discussion?

Don't feel rained on.

my own belief has become..that god of the old testament was not GOD.
i believe he was real, but not God. he was to flawed, to vengeful,....to human.
he was based in reward/punishment and slew countless humans.
who was he? i dont know for sure..but not GOD.
i do believe in the creator, if that makes any sense, but you will never see me following any religion.
i dont believe in religion either, if that makes me an athiest..well so be it..its just a word.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Well, I did say that I agree with you, I was just reposting the reason given.

Like I said in a previous post, I see a bit of bias because division amongst the religious population is recognized, and the ones signaled out are the fundamentalists, but when we have tried to point out that atheists are not a monolithic group, we are told that that just can't be.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Gryphon66

Well, I did say that I agree with you, I was just reposting the reason given.

Like I said in a previous post, I see a bit of bias because division amongst the religious population is recognized, and the ones signaled out are the fundamentalists, but when we have tried to point out that atheists are not a monolithic group, we are told that that just can't be.

Right, and I agree with you. Just remember though, we have "freedom of religion in the US not freedom from religion."

At least according to the religious fundamentalist nutjobs.

I'll take "establish no religion" and "free exercise thereof" any day.

You know, that Constitutional thing. LOL.

Take it easy!

You will probably find this the most relevant anwser to the op

Sorce m.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2LehsA1dk

a reply to: CaptiNimble

I started to post, way back in the thread, that the question in the OP was displaced by the discussion of whether athesim is or isn't a belief, as usually happens, and I am as guilty as well, but this is a very good answer. I must be sincere and say that I don't think it is the reason for everyone preaching atheism in any public place but it is valid.

For those that can't watch videos Christopher Hitchens, didn't know who he was either, is asked by a member of an audiance why he feels the need to preach, for lack of a better term, instead of just staying home.

His reply, in short, is that since 9/11 he feels that it is important to generate an international opposition to theocracy. The reason being that these monotheistic religions seem to want, more than anything, the destruction of this world.

Here's to all "Theists"...I'm an Atheist who believes in God. Wait, What?
Yes, how can i not, when we don't even understand why and how we can exist, on this planet earth. How can somethings happen and how not? Why the Laws of physics are like they are and not different. we don't know. Hell, we don't even understand Gravity properly. We might in future, but not now.

Now, which god i believe in? Not yours, yours or yours. I believe in a god who we haven't seen yet, who we haven't even heard of, so thats why I'll call him/her "God".
Why I don't believe in Gods from Hindu, Muslim, Christian and other Myths? because they are myths, nothing else. These God that most people in the world believes in, was created to control the people. To make them fear that someoneis watching them, at the same to assure that someone is watching over them and to make sure that rich and powerful stays that way. To make sure general people stays in order.
In the history of mankind, most wars were fought because of religion and they will, until the end of the world.
But thats my view, you don't have to agree with me, you can have yours.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: InTheLight
How did I allow myself to become involved in this thread?

You wanted to honestly try to relate to others who pretended to want an honest and open discussion?

Don't feel rained on.

I am covered with Gortex.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Eh Gryphon66, it's hard to see what good can come out of discussion like these, but I'll give another stab at it...

What you mentioned there about religion having to die it's own death, reminds me about the original post that kicked off the thread.We need to practice asking ourselves when we take something from someone,what it is that we are trying to replace it with.

The way you feel about the negative influence religion can exert on the world, the importance of reason, being rational and the scientific method are all very honorable.I can understand that, and it brings me back to what I brought up about spiritual atheists.

If someone believes in a spiritual side to the universe, it's ironic that they would omit those who don't in their perspective.I believe we are what we do, and all else a description.I believe the universe is governed by natural laws, that their function is indifferent to individual opinion.Having said that, I have seen many who shine brightly, making the world a better place, regardless of how they choose to label themselves.If someone does the work, they reap the benefits.

I've been through different stages in my journey, and I don't know if I necessarily reach others half way.I define religion as a belief system cultivate a greater understanding of the divine and spirituality as the experience.I don't see how anyone doesn't share in the experience, even if they don't recognize it.It's very novel to see that in someone else or for someone else to see it in you, when sharing a story or experience from another level. Lol, reminds me of a love story!I don't know what she saw in me

The best I've been able to do about the language barrier, when it comes to getting some peace out of discussion like these in my life face to face, is try to meet others on common ground.Where that ground is really depends on where you are at, concepts and ideas are generally built from the ground up.Yelling down from the heights or screaming at the heavens is a poor substitute for making the trek to go meet someone at their convience. Mind you, theists are more guilty of this in my opinion.

I tend to favour using story, or keeping discussions to the physical or emotional levels of discussion when sharing with those I don't know well and that seems to work well as parameters to try to get my points across.This is has been more fruitful for me, then risking alienating or unnecessarily judgmental when it comes to thorny issues...

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: CaptiNimble
His reply, in short, is that since 9/11 he feels that it is important to generate an international opposition to theocracy. The reason being that these monotheistic religions seem to want, more than anything, the destruction of this world.

This.

I can relate to that, the events of 9/11 forced me to wake up and face reality.Everyone is in this together, and everyone has to face their fears, and practice breaking down the barriers of ignorance that stand in the way of the world being a better for our children.

Duality has a choke hold on our hopes, the image of Monotheism that comes up in the media is heavy on idolatry.IMO a true Monotheists doesn't believe in the evil or using any form of fear as means to an end.Darkness must be faced, every image we hold dear, even the images of ourselves, to realize the strength of the one family we all share...

originally posted by: shivam13
Here's to all "Theists"...I'm an Atheist who believes in God. Wait, What?
Yes, how can i not

What does atheist mean to you?

Because you're doing it wrong.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

The good that comes out of a discussion like this is the same that comes out of any discussion.

Some of us clarify our understandings through relation to others.

That's about all we can hope for. Thanks for adding your understanding to the discussion!