GOP Congresswoman Asks For Obamacare Horror Stories, Gets Dose Of Reality Instead

originally posted by: Greven
a reply to: SlapMonkey
If you will recall, he is speaking in absolutes:

originally posted by: macman
And that whole part, where not one single Govt program has ever been successful, within budget or without major Govt corruption was just glossed right over.

No program has ever been successful, he claims. Yet, you here suggest that a few - on occasion - are. It seems you disagree with his assertion as well.

Generally, yes. And I didn't say programs are successful, I said sometimes small parts within the program are--but that doesn't, at all, indicate the entire program is a success.

That shouldn't be difficult to understand.

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: macman
Simple economics.....where does the rest of the money come from?

And that whole part, where not one single Govt program has ever been successful, within budget or without major Govt corruption was just glossed right over.

Yeah, all military operations were unsuccessful, same with things like Head Start. That's why we all speak German now.

Head Start?
graceuniversity.edu...

originally posted by: macman
Please show me an agency/department that is a success story.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
Generally, yes. And I didn't say programs are successful, I said sometimes small parts within the program are--but that doesn't, at all, indicate the entire program is a success.

Ignoring the snipe there, what are your definitions of "success" for a program?

originally posted by: Sunwolf
Head Start?
graceuniversity.edu...

That article is pointless given that it references a study that I already linked. Perhaps you should read that post?

a reply to: Onslaught2996

Of course it is going to look pretty good right now......Wait a little while. At the end of the day someone must pay..........It will raise taxes and it will bankrupt the country if it continues down this path.



Right now the US government controls 40% of the GDP. The lowest wage earners are screwed because of inflationary boundaries. This means they will not be able to afford food and housing in the next couple of years. Obama care is another huge entitlement that is not funded. Someone always pays.........

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: macman
Please show me an agency/department that is a success story.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
Generally, yes. And I didn't say programs are successful, I said sometimes small parts within the program are--but that doesn't, at all, indicate the entire program is a success.

Ignoring the snipe there, what are your definitions of "success" for a program?

Mine is the same as most people (and Google):

suc·cess /səkˈses/
noun
the accomplishment of an aim or purpose.

Of course, when it comes to government programs, I'd add to the end of that: "within a reasonable budget, with integrity, without abuse, and within the law."

a reply to: Greven

You call asking to show success a snipe?? I know you seem to hold the Govt as the golden calf, but come on.

Success is measured by several things:
Within or close to budget
Achieving the goal(s) a program was created for
Measurable achievements (Not just good intentions)
Not making things worse
Not leaching off of other programs or people to achieve goals
A program or project will ALWAYS have a target date or goal for when it is accomplished
Sustainable budget while operating

These things are not very hard.

As someone who has benefitted greatly from the ACA, I thought I'd throw my experiences in here. Firstly, I have a preexisting condition (CKD stage IV with IgA Nephropathy). I had a job and I had insurance when I first got my diagnosis. Everything was fine, but eventually I lost my job after I called in sick one too many times (due to my kidney disease).

I lost my insurance and had to start paying cash for everything. The first thing I found out was my medications that I was paying $5 at most for, were hugely expensive. One in particular was $145 for a 30-day supply. That's when I discovered goodrx and got a discount card and started purchasing my prescriptions at Walmart, which was a life-saver, but I still couldn't really afford that, being that I had lost my job.

I have to see my nephrologist every 3 months, that alone was costing a bit over $100. Also a week before seeing him I had to get labs, and depending on which labs he wanted to see that would range anywhere from $30 to $150+. Through goodrx I was spending about $110 a month just on prescriptions.

I applied for insurance through healthcare.gov, who directed me to my state's exchange. I eventually got insurance through my state exchange and now I pay $0 for everything. To me, someone like me is exactly why this law came into effect. It really sucked having to make a choice between eating and getting my blood pressure meds, because there really was no choice and it just meant I wasn't eating.

I CANNOT be without my blood pressure meds, as more than likely it would only be a matter of time before I had a stroke due to high blood pressure. I can't tell you how stressful it is to be out of my meds and see my blood pressure be 176/120 and rising. It has taken such a weight off my shoulders not having to worry about my mounting medical bills. I'm already on my way to end-stage renal disease, that's enough to worry about.

Obviously I can't speak for other people, but the ACA has been amazing for me. Also thought I'd go ahead and add that I live in a traditionally red state - Arizona.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
Mine is the same as most people (and Google):

suc·cess /səkˈses/
noun
the accomplishment of an aim or purpose.

Of course, when it comes to government programs, I'd add to the end of that: "within a reasonable budget, with integrity, without abuse, and within the law."

So... it isn't the same as the definition, as we are talking about government programs - hence my inquiry.

Once upon a time, there was an agency called the Advanced Research Projects Agency (founded in 1958). This eventually transformed into DARPA, adding Defense to the title. Back when it was still ARPA, they developed ARPANET, which eventually evolved (in the early 80s with TCI/IP in conjunction with the National Science Foundation Network and the 1989 invention of the World Wide Web) into the internet that we use today.

DARPA today has less than a $3 billion budget. The internet economy is in the trillions - it would rank probably 5th in the world if it were a country. I don't know the budget of ARPA or DARPA for all the years, but supposing it was roughly $3 billion for the last 57 years of its existence, that would only be $171 billion total - which is well under the economic impact of the internet. DARPA researches lots of other things, but this might be its most important contribution. Considering the resulting internet alone, I'd say it paid for itself.

Would you consider this a successful program?

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: Greven

You call asking to show success a snipe?? I know you seem to hold the Govt as the golden calf, but come on.

Success is measured by several things:

That was not what I referred to.

What would be your opinion of the above example of DARPA and the internet?

a reply to: Greven

The internet was not a welfare based program. It was driven by the DoD (Which is a cluster as well).

The project started as a way to interconnect computers, via private network for DoD secured transmissions.
The project worked, but has been expanded upon via outside forces, and not the Govt.

And as for DARPA? It is based on working items submitted typically from outside entities and people.

Comparing DARPA to say, the ACA makes as much sense as a football bat.

DARPA itself doesn't do much these days, as it is bogged down with redtape, Govt policy and bureaucracy.
How do I know this? Because one of my businesses is doing R&D for 2 DARPA requests at the moment. And, having spoken to several people that are at the spearhead of the requests, they informed us that working directly with DARPA is a nightmare.

SO, success is now driven, for DARPA, by outside forces like my business. I guess if you want to mutilate the definition of success into the absolute end result, you could claim success.

But........it doesn't exactly fall within the scope outlined several posts before.

The 2 examples you have given basically solidify the fact that the Govt can't do anything right..............without help from outside people and/or businesses.

a reply to: Greven

I would consider the internet a successful result of one of its projects (and the only reason it flourished was because it went into the private sector).

This is really a pointless discussion, so we don't have to continue if you don't want to. My point stands, and it won't change: While some government agencies have a few sparkles of glitter within it, it doesn't mean overall that government programs are a success under my definition.

To each their own.

originally posted by: Pimpish
As someone who has benefitted greatly from the ACA, I thought I'd throw my experiences in here. Firstly, I have a preexisting condition (CKD stage IV with IgA Nephropathy). I had a job and I had insurance when I first got my diagnosis. Everything was fine, but eventually I lost my job after I called in sick one too many times (due to my kidney disease).

I lost my insurance and had to start paying cash for everything. The first thing I found out was my medications that I was paying $5 at most for, were hugely expensive. One in particular was $145 for a 30-day supply. That's when I discovered goodrx and got a discount card and started purchasing my prescriptions at Walmart, which was a life-saver, but I still couldn't really afford that, being that I had lost my job.

I have to see my nephrologist every 3 months, that alone was costing a bit over $100. Also a week before seeing him I had to get labs, and depending on which labs he wanted to see that would range anywhere from $30 to $150+. Through goodrx I was spending about $110 a month just on prescriptions.

I applied for insurance through healthcare.gov, who directed me to my state's exchange. I eventually got insurance through my state exchange and now I pay $0 for everything. To me, someone like me is exactly why this law came into effect. It really sucked having to make a choice between eating and getting my blood pressure meds, because there really was no choice and it just meant I wasn't eating.

I CANNOT be without my blood pressure meds, as more than likely it would only be a matter of time before I had a stroke due to high blood pressure. I can't tell you how stressful it is to be out of my meds and see my blood pressure be 176/120 and rising. It has taken such a weight off my shoulders not having to worry about my mounting medical bills. I'm already on my way to end-stage renal disease, that's enough to worry about.

Obviously I can't speak for other people, but the ACA has been amazing for me. Also thought I'd go ahead and add that I live in a traditionally red state - Arizona.

So it doesn't bother you that millions of other people had to lose the right to choose in order for you to survive the loss of your job?

a reply to: BrianFlanders

So it doesn't bother you that millions of other people had to lose the right to choose in order for you to survive the loss of your job?

I missed the part where I said that.

originally posted by: Pimpish
a reply to: BrianFlanders

So it doesn't bother you that millions of other people had to lose the right to choose in order for you to survive the loss of your job?

I missed the part where I said that.

Well, you said Obamacare has been beneficial to you and I didn't notice any part where you said you'd rather not have benefited from millions of other people losing their right to choose. It's not my fault that you got sick or lost your job but Obamacare literally says that it is. They call it the shared responsibility payment or some horsecrap like that. Basically, it means it's everyone's responsibility to pay for your misfortunes, regardless of the fact that they had nothing to do with it.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

I guess you missed the part where I prefaced my post with

my experiences

. I was discussing my experience with my state insurance exchange. I wasn't talking about what other people are going through, let them talk about that, I'm in no position to do so as I've experienced only what I've experienced.

a reply to: Pimpish

You didn't have to.

You champion a program that you benefit from, while others pay for it and loose their own coverage.

CMR is my representative. Before ACA I could not get affordable premiums because I have had high blood pressure for 30yrs. I just got coverage with premiums I can afford. Insurance is just a key anyway to get you out of the ER.

a reply to: MOMof3

The horror starts when the deductibles are due and payable.

Then comes the legal fees for bankruptcy.

And next year it starts all over again.

Endless loops are fun.

a reply to: xuenchen

I go to the doctor once a year to renew blood pressure pills. I have been terrified that I would have a stroke with no insurance. Having this insurance after 8 years has brought me some peace of mind.