Mental illness - just have a think for a second before you open your mouth.

cogit ergo sum. if someone thinks of killing, and then actually DECIDES to do it, then they are responsible for that moment in their life. so what if they didn't eat their Wheaties and were suffering from low IRON, perhaps they should try a regimen of CLAY to rid themselves of all the "natural" heavy metals floating around. Put all the killers in the FAULTY unit bin and throw away the key. Give them guns, knives and burny stuff with matches and let their nature DETERMINE their outcome.

originally posted by: and14263

You're pathetic mate.

Thanks for the insult, I think I'll go kill myself now... hypocrite.

a reply to: and14263

A tad harsh calling "Bone75" pathetic for having an opposing view to you and not once has he/she been personally attacked you on this thread!

and14263 you are better than that, discuss his/her points. don't just attack them for having a different opinion to you! WTF!

Personally and IMO I am appalled that this thread has even started about the pilot less than 24 hours after he murdered 150 people. IMO you are excusing the fact he murdered 150 people due to some undisclosed mental illness. Would you still believe and hold that view had one of your loved ones been one of his victims?

a reply to: and14263

I'm in agreement with you on the pilot.

Anyone who commits suicide is fighting demons we'll never understand.



No one mentally stable attempts to take their own life... (Personal experience again)...


Like I said above, levels to this!

a reply to: flammadraco

Would you still believe and hold that view had one of your loved ones been one of his victims?

I would, going by first hand experience of suicidal thoughts, knowing many others who have attempted, and some sadly, succeeding in taking their own life.

None of us were mentally stable at the time.


So while I'd be devastated, I couldn't fully hold the guy responsible, even if I wanted too...
Experience tells me that I cannot judge.


That's just my perspective.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Then you're a better person than me, as like Bone75 (who I rarely agree with), I would dig the pilot up as they stated and kill him again, mental illness or no mental illness.

I thinks its disrespectful to all those families of the those murdered that this thread is up and trying to "EXCUSE" the murder of these innocent people by a pilot who could or could not have had depression.

It would be like me saying the same thing after 9/11 that the hijackers were mentally ill and we should try and understand their illness crap! Would not have washed and it does not wash now! Its a despicable thing taking the life's of others when wanting to take your own life! And if I did belief in Hell then I hope they have a special place for this w#';-er!

a reply to: flammadraco

I'm glad you're appalled... It's a brilliant display of what's wrong with society today.

I'm not excusing anyone. Once again you've completely missed the point of another thread here on ATS.

It's our assessment and judgment which has been conditioned into us which I am questioning and criticising.

Would you still believe and hold that view had one of your loved ones been one of his victims?

Yes, 100%. More so than you would ever, ever imagine.

Have I ever once excused murder or stated that murderers should not be taken out of society?

originally posted by: Bone75
Personally, I don't care what was going on in that pilot's head. If I could dig him up and kill him again I would. The same goes for any crazy person that would kill a child.

Well that's a perfectly sane response to a tragedy.

And that's what it is-a tragedy.

a reply to: flammadraco

Excusing and trying to comprehend and empathise are different in my opinion.


I'm not saying, "well he was ill, so he can do what he likes"...

More...

I'm saying "he was ill, I can't say it's unexpected and he should have received help long ago"...



Again, just my perspective.

a reply to: and14263

And I am appalled at you, every time lately I have seen you in a thread, you end up personally attacking others that have contributed to the thread! You come across as a bully, and seem to think you are a cut above the rest.

As i have said to you many times before, there are a lot of threads where you show brilliance and then you go and undo that by getting personal and attacking folk with opposing opinions. Had Bone75 said anything to you in this thread for you to personally attack them, then I would hold my tongue but it seems to be something you do a lot when either you become frustrated or backed into a corner.

back to the topic in hand, you said in your OP.....

This thread has clearly been triggered by the recent story that the pilot in the German Wings crash committed suicide. Everybody I have spoken to has said "But why did the b****rd have to take all those other people with him?"

Thus the responses you received. I understand that there are a lot of issues with mental illness in our country and throughout the world, but that does not deviate from the fact that even if this pilot was mentally ill is any excuse for the coward to take 150 other souls with him!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

And it's a sensible perspective on mental illness. But as most of us misunderstand mental illness and class actions resulting from it as an absolute crime - black or white no intelligent discussion involved - then you are seen as someone excusing murder.

Because that is the depth of thought which we humans put into emotional subjects.

Once again I'm proud to be a human

originally posted by: flammadraco

originally posted by: Bone75
Personally, I don't care what was going on in that pilot's head. If I could dig him up and kill him again I would. The same goes for any crazy person that would kill a child.

For a change I actually agree with you Bone75. I don't care if the pilot was mentally ill, he took the lives off 150 people with him. For everyone else being all lefty about "oh its a mental illness", go and say that to the loved ones of the 150 people killed by this suicidal maniac and see how understanding they are about this pilots mental health!

Next we will be hearing how suicidal bombers are mentally ill and mis-understood! As far as I am concerned, if you take a life then you deserve the full force of the law. Can everyone stop enabling this pilot as a poor misunderstood depressed individual, he killed 150 PEOPLE, end off......

All this thread has accomplished is to state that having a mental illness gives you a ticket to do as you please. It undermines those people with real disabling depression and other mental illnesses. To put them in the same boat as this pilot is an insult to those suffering mental illness and to those who lost their loved ones in this tragic murder.

Understanding the mentally ill, does NOT mean giving them a pass when they commit a horrid crime under psychosis.

It means that they need treatment, long term, very long term treatment,
not jail,
not death,
but very long term mental health confinement.
With a sort of parole like team who review the person's status/crime on an annual basis.
Like is done when people are put in jail -

normally people sent to prison only serve an average of 50% of their jail sentence.
www.wthr.com...
And normally release is done regardless of the mental health status of the person if the time has been served.
So a prisoner could sit quietly in a corner and get off early for good behavior,
and still be as mentally ill and dangerous when kicked out the door,
as they were when they walked in the door of the prison.

Calling for straight jail time is quite dangerous.

All they have to do is "be good" and 50% of their sentence is dropped
and they are released with no treatment, no medication,
and the law demands they be released regardless of their mental health status.

This would not be true if they were sent to a long term mental health facility instead,
and were released after the mandatory "sentence" having had medical treatment
and with medication, and with tools to function in society and be healthy.

But this is impossible today because the vast majority of state run
mental health facilities have been closed, shut down, and not replaced.

Think people!

originally posted by: CaptainTwig
a reply to: nerbot
Not trying to argue, but I doesn't take empathy to understand mental illness. I'm autistic and I understand well enough. Logic and intelligence are what you need, which is even more lacking. As for your struggle, I'm right there with you. Even why I try to open up about it, people just look at me like I'm crazy.

But surely it's things like logic and intelligence that you speak of that leads to the empathy I spoke of? I don't think empathy can happen without it and if one can empathise then one has the ability to consider things from another's point of view, something many people just cannot grasp as it means thinking from the perspective of someone other than one's self.

Also, perhaps logic is not the best thing to use imo when considering mental illness because it isn't really logical thinking is it? It is a mind that has lost control and is being dragged along by some negative force, often into dark places.

I suppose the key is acceptance. Too many people seem to play things down, try to make something into nothing to eliminate problems, but for the one living with those problems that is just damn frustrating because turning off thoughts is not possible unless one is completely shallow. Mental illness often comes with deep thinking, great for some things but a curse for others.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: flammadraco

originally posted by: Bone75
Personally, I don't care what was going on in that pilot's head. If I could dig him up and kill him again I would. The same goes for any crazy person that would kill a child.

For a change I actually agree with you Bone75. I don't care if the pilot was mentally ill, he took the lives off 150 people with him. For everyone else being all lefty about "oh its a mental illness", go and say that to the loved ones of the 150 people killed by this suicidal maniac and see how understanding they are about this pilots mental health!

Next we will be hearing how suicidal bombers are mentally ill and mis-understood! As far as I am concerned, if you take a life then you deserve the full force of the law. Can everyone stop enabling this pilot as a poor misunderstood depressed individual, he killed 150 PEOPLE, end off......

All this thread has accomplished is to state that having a mental illness gives you a ticket to do as you please. It undermines those people with real disabling depression and other mental illnesses. To put them in the same boat as this pilot is an insult to those suffering mental illness and to those who lost their loved ones in this tragic murder.

Understanding the mentally ill, does NOT mean giving them a pass when they commit a horrid crime under psychosis.

It means that they need treatment, long term, very long term treatment, not jail, not death, but very long term mental health confinement. With a sort of parole like team who review the person's status/crime on an annual basis. Like is done when people are put in jail - normally people sent to prison only serve an average of -50% of their jail sentence.
www.wthr.com...
And normally release is done regardless of the mental health status of the person if the time has been served.

Calling for straight jail time is quite dangerous. All they have to do is "be good" and 50% of their sentence is dropped and they are released with no treatment, no medication, and the law demands they be released regardless of their mental health status.
Think people!

couldn't have said it better myself. people would rather punish the mentally ill by way of force or putting them in jail which would resolve absolutely nothing. there needs to be a PREVENTATIVE medical system, not punishment after the fact that doesn't even address the issue in the first place.

but, considering the fact that people in here are equating psychosis with low iron deficiency i'm not surprised. it's a simple lack of education. and again people want blood. they don't want to prevent or address the issue rationally because they're not even viewing the issue from a logical standpoint. buncha savages in here.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie

Well that's a perfectly sane response to a tragedy.

Yeah... a tragic mass murder. I've known quite a few people who have killed themselves, and every one of those instances it was carefully planned and executed to inflict as much guilt as possible on the people they leave behind.

Anyone who would take out a plane full people in the process doesn't deserve that satisfaction and can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: and14263

I understand that their are a lot of issues with mental illness in our country and throughout the world, but that does not deviate from the fact that even if this pilot was mentally ill is any excuse for the coward to take 150 other souls with him!

You are right and wrong.

Most people of sound mind or not did not want this to happen, OP included. But i've heard the same old statement before- "those who take their own lives are selfish cowards" and you'll find that most people who have said that have never contemplated suicide before.

Do you want to know what a suicide attempt feels like? imagine saying goodbye to everyone and everything you hold dear when they are nowhere in sight. You have fleeting glimpses of what could've been and are prepared to miss out on what could be. It is not a pleasant feeling and while the loss of those folk can and should be blamed on the one responsible, there will always be that lingering question: "why did he do it?" and some people will never understand why.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

I believe that people who contemplate suicide are actually quiet brave when you think about what they are actually doing and as you say leaving behind their loved ones etc. However in this case when the pilot has taken 150 souls with him, is not brave, its a cowardly murderous act and no better than those ISIS suicide bombers and should be treated as such!

a reply to: flammadraco

Attributing cowardice to the actions of someone who is potentially mentally ill is out of context.

In the same way as if that same person had become ill and through the results of that illness donated his life fortunes to me - it is an act of generosity but he is not generous.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie

Well that's a perfectly sane response to a tragedy.

Anyone who would take out a plane full people in the process doesn't deserve that satisfaction and can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

This is why we are ignorant in this field. Because we fail to intellectualise the situation and let our emotions take over.

a reply to: CallmeRaskolnikov

The pilot KILLED 150 people. Tell me how he is any different from an ISIS suicide Bomber or the Hijackers that flew into the World Trade Centre. When does being a lunatic wanting to kill another human cross the line to "Mental Illness".

All I see on this thread is folk trying to excuse the fact that the Pilot was ill. With that train of thought you would also be excusing ISIS suicide bombers and the 9/11 hijackers. Did these people have mental illnesses as well, were their actions justified due to their illnesses?