Does a belief that we go on in spirit after we die require a belief in a god being?

a reply to: Develo

conversely, the theory of the bicameral mind gives an alternate explanation that, honestly, is as compelling as any other hypothesis out there.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: TzarChasm

why does an "afterlife" have to include angels sitting on clouds?

we have applied human order to a construct of an afterlife. nature rarely works that way....and that kind of thinking is very human. Like the child who believes that God put animals here to perform a purpose.

i see no reason why a consciousness could not exist beyond the confines of the body. Actually, if you follow the study of consciousness....it looks more and more like consciousness derives externally.

i wasnt suggesting any of that. i was exploring the implications of an afterlife and any governing force that may anchor it, so to speak.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Develo

conversely, the theory of the bicameral mind gives an alternate explanation that, honestly, is as compelling as any other hypothesis out there.

And it also comforts me when I'm saying the origins of religions is something internal/mental/subjective rather than the deformation through time of the records of physical events like for cargo cults.

My whole point as been that cargo cults and religions are different realities with different mechanism. They are not similar.

a reply to: Develo

The truth.

You know as well as I that the media, politicians and lawyers lie at every turn… the stories in our textbooks for school children are the best examples of this. Whats changed about that? Its always been like that.

I don't have any problem with certain teachings and writings about how to behave, its the history of what actually happened thats suspect, imo.

Does a belief that we go on in spirit after we die require a belief in a god being?

No.

I happen to believe there is a creating God. But it isn't required to believe in a God to believe that our energy doesn't die. Energy changing forms is proven by science. Our energy changes form when our bodies die.

a reply to: intrptr

And what do you believe is the truth? That's what I'm asking you.

If all these texts aren't about spiritual stuff but are our deformed story, what is this story?

a reply to: Develo

IMO, the only difference between any cult and a religion is the esoteric teachings.


Religions spring up around great thinkers in esoterica. Religion is the house of knowledge, even if the majority of its participants are not privy to that knowledge.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I said exactly the same.

Traditionally in tribal societies, the shaman is also the counsellor, the physician, the medium and the wise man.


Religion revolves around the relationships between the visible and the invisible.




Cults are more specific and geared toward one specific outcome. Cults are closer to magical thinking : repeat this and you will get this.

It's not based on understanding, it's based on imitation.



The difference is thin but I strongly believd their origins are very different.

a reply to: Develo

If all these texts aren't about spiritual stuff but are our deformed story, what is this story?

I didn't say "spiritual stuff", I said religion. That interpretation of historical events is flawed…

You notice I keep saying (imo)…

originally posted by: Develo

If religions were initially about the material stuff like you claim here, how come all religions and spiritualities worldwide, from the theistic ones to the more animist ones (chamanism and stuff like that), how come they are all centered around spiritual stuff?

About the existence of another reality on top of the material one. And it's in that reality that the beings call spirits, angels, demons, gods (supposedly) exist.

Are you seriously claiming that all this originally comes from a misunderstanding about the identity of a pilot?


That's certainly a very limited and caricatural vision of what spiritualities and religions are about... IMO

Religions evolved - yes evolved - to explain the world around us (what science does for us today). We endowned the 'gods' with their properties. This line of 'reasoning' continues to this day gaining in ever more complexity as all 'systems' tend to up to a bifurcation point - where they crash or metophorize into something new. Such is the evolution of knowledge. We are approaching a point where religion is losing it's revelance in our daily lives due to lack of practical use for inidividuals and groups.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Develo

If all these texts aren't about spiritual stuff but are our deformed story, what is this story?

I didn't say "spiritual stuff", I said religion. That interpretation of historical events is flawed…

You notice I keep saying (imo)…

I also notice you don't want to share what you believe are the real historical events

originally posted by: Develo
a reply to: intrptr

And what do you believe is the truth? That's what I'm asking you.

If all these texts aren't about spiritual stuff but are our deformed story, what is this story?

You aren't persisting this line of questioning to learn anything, you're doing it with intent to ridicule my own idea, like you perceive I did yours.

No go.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Develo
a reply to: intrptr

And what do you believe is the truth? That's what I'm asking you.

If all these texts aren't about spiritual stuff but are our deformed story, what is this story?

You aren't persisting this line of questioning to learn anything, you're doing it with intent to ridicule my own idea, like you perceive I did yours.

No go.

I was trying to understand by which reasoning you come to your conclusion, but if you don't want to share it's clear I will never know.

a reply to: Develo

You don't want to… (know).

Let me just add that while I really doubt that there is a god being, I don't want to close my mind completely to any idea that appears to be ludicrous, which is what the idea that a being named God created the physical universe from absolutely nothing. People have experiences that shouldn't be possible. It tells me to keep an open mind.

Like I said, to me it's a mystery.